Sage RIL: It's about time.

[Jake Bauer]

2007 Dodge Ram Quadcab, and no it wasn't made in Mexico, it's the Hemi model Made in the U.S.A.(said it right on the sticker)

Ha! OWNED!

And while we're on the subject of cars, I'll let Langston32 explain to us why Ford, Chrysler, and GM are all bankrupt. And don't say that they don't make quality vehicles, because they do. Explain to us what happens when American's stop supporting the American economy and businesses are free to outsource to exploit cheap labor.

Very well said.

 

[J85909266]

I'm really sick of every thread about a knife that isn't USA made turning into a debate on whether or not it is acceptable to buy products from other countries. I don't come here to talk about that, and I feel it's off topic. If you are upset because of the country of origin, then keep it to yourself and move on, and express your opinion in the political arena if you must.

 

[5.56]

I'm really sick of every thread about a knife that isn't USA made turning into a debate on whether or not it is acceptable to buy products from other countries. I don't come here to talk about that, and I feel it's off topic. If you are upset because of the country of origin, then keep it to yourself and move on, and express your opinion in the political arena if you must.

This is an open forum and we live in a free society, don't read threads if you are offended by their political discussions. If you want to silence the masses, move to communist China.

And if you read your own thread, you'll see that this instantly became political after the 4th post when the origin of the blade steel was questioned.
And the origin of the blade steel is a valid concern when discussing knives.

 

[J85909266]

That's a pretty arrogant post. Whatever, though. Have your way with the thread. I'll enjoy the knife, regardless of your agenda.

 

[5.56]

Have your way with the thread. I'll enjoy the knife, regardless of your agenda.

My only agenda is reminding people how our economy got where it is, a lot of people have become complacent. It frustrates me to see our country like this.

I apologize if I went off-topic

And no hard feelings Joe

 

[The Deacon]

Back on topic, for those who did not yet visit the other Spyderco forum, a few of the shots from it...

As noted earlier, the relationship between the clip and lock bar will be different on the production version.

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[Morrow]

Back on topic, for those who did not yet visit the other Spyderco forum, a few of the shots from it...

Thank you for posting these pics again. There really isn't a single thing I dislike about this knife. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[DWRW]

I like my Sage CF Walker a Lot, but I wish the blade movement were much smoother.

I hope the smoothness of the blade movement is addressed on the Sage Ti RIL.

 

[yablanowitz]

If my Walker Sage were any smoother it would open and close itself without my input. It sounds to me like yours has a problem, maybe carbon fiber dust on the washers or something.

 

[stabman]

2007 Dodge Ram Quadcab, and no it wasn't made in Mexico, it's the Hemi model Made in the U.S.A.(said it right on the sticker)

And while we're on the subject of cars, I'll let Langston32 explain to us why Ford, Chrysler, and GM are all bankrupt. And don't say that they don't make quality vehicles, because they do. Explain to us what happens when American's stop supporting the American economy and businesses are free to outsource to exploit cheap labor.

And for the record, I like Spyderco and will continue to support their American line, I am just bitter because I want this knife, but out of principle I won't be buying one

Alot of our "domestic" made vehicles have many foreign made components in them(think China).
The days when buying American or buying Canadian meant that all the parts were made in America or Canada(or Mexico, with NAFTA), are gone.

 

[DWRW]

If my Walker Sage were any smoother it would open and close itself without my input. It sounds to me like yours has a problem, maybe carbon fiber dust on the washers or something.

Well, I wish. But, I don't think that is it.

I keep hearing so many others talk about how smooth their Spydercos are, but I must have crap for luck or something. I have actually been dissappointed with many of my recent Spyderco purchases.

I did pick up two of the T-Mags. Both T-Mags are super smooth and silky opening. The smoothness of the opening was a large part of helping me buy some other Spydercos.

So, I recently picked up a Tenacious, Caly III CF/ZDP, Sage CF Walker, Dragonfly and they have ALL been very stiff, tight, gritty and far from smooth opening.

I don't really like the blade shape and grind of the T-Mag (I am still bummed that the Spyderco description said it was flat grind, when it is clearly a hollow grind!) I am also not a big fan of the non-locking magnet mechanism. But, otherwise the T-Mag is an awesome knife with many great features..... features I had hoped to find on my Sage, Caly III and Tenacious.

I picked up the Tenacious because of the price. And it is a great knife at a great price for what you get. Still, I like VERY smooth knives and wasn't blown away with it feeling fairly gritty, sticky, tight and stiff. I have used some EWL Slip 2000 and it has smoothed up some. But, not as smooth as I like (yet ???).

I figured the Sage would be smoother as it is a higher end Spyderco, but even with Slip 2000, my Sage is pretty gritty and tight. My Sage is grittier and tighter than my Tenacious.
I have to wrist whip the handle of the Sage VERY hard to get a decent Spyder-drop to work and in most cases, it will often not open all the way with a single "Solid" wrist flick.
I also have to flick it VERY hard with my thumb nail to get it to open all the way in a single flick. But, I have better results with a good hard thumb-nail flick. Even still, it will also often stick part-way when thumb-flicking it. The Slip 2000 has improved it about 300%, but I can't call it silky smooth (yet ????). What I am describing above is "With" the improved results and Slip 2000.


My biggest dissappointment is actually my Caly III. I really expected this to be "THE" Premium level of fit and finish... And it "IS" in every way except the blade is too tight. I think the lock mechanism keeps too much constant pressure on the blade or something. I can't push the lock down far enough to actually seperate the lock from the blade. The blade movement is actually somewhat smooth on the Caly III, but it could still be smoother and it is just WAY too darn tight. I have to try VERY hard to flick the Caly's blade open. Spyder-drops are barely achievable and more often than not require a second flick of my wrist as it usually doesn't open enough to lock.

I prefer to flick a blade open with ease - Quickly and smoothly!
I am not really a big Spyder-drop technique fan. I prefer just to thumb-flick.
Honestly, I still prefer a thumb-stud. But, I am sufficient with a Spyder-hole "IF" the blade is smooth and easy to open.
Unfortunately, that is not working out so well with my Caly III or my other recent Spydercos for that matter.

With hundreds of attempts and lots of Slip 2000, they are getting a little better. But, I have to hope they will continue to improve - a LOT! And I wish they had come much smoother initially.

My Dragonfly (FRN) is another that I can't flick open as easily as I would prefer. Sometimes yes, but sometimes no. I don't want to have to "Focus" so much when opening my knives. I would rather deployment be automatic and subconscious smooth motion.
I assume some of the issues with the Dragonfly are the light-weight blade. But, if my Dragonfly were smoother, I think the Dragonflys blade still has enough mass and weight that I feel it should still carry enough inertia to open fully with a simple thumb flick. But, mine doesn't. Unfortunately, my Dragonfly is yet another that often sticks part-way to opening when flicked. And forget about Spyder-drop with my FRN Dragonfly. With even rediculously exagerated hard flicks, I can't even get the Dragonfly to Spyder-drop past the fully closed detent position = "ZERO" movement.

I have MANY other thumb stud type folders that flick open easily. So, I know what smooth should be in my mind. I had hoped most of these Spydercos would be much smoother.

Maybe just bad luck on me.


Any advice on how to smooth these up would be greatly appreciated.

-----------

In regards to closing, for me, Liner locks are much more naturally intuitive for blade release than mid-locks. So, I was looking forward to my Sage prior to receiving it. The liner lock works very well. Personally, I prefere a less stiff lock bar. But, I know many prefer the "Concept" of blades being locked up like a vault. To each their own.

I do like the very solid feel of how the lock engages and holds on my Caly III. There is absolutely NO play. But, unlocking the blade on mid-locks like my Caly III is much less than ideal in my book

But, (IMO), there are "Compromises" between the mid-locks and liner locks.
I generally "Still" lean towards the easier, faster, safer and more natural release of the liner locks.

However, I do really like some of the features of the Caly III, like the very slim no-washer profile on the Caly III. I prefer the slightly less belly and slightly more pointy blade shape on the Caly III over the Sage, but not a huge difference. On the other hand, I prefer the less steep thumb ramp on the Sage over the Caly III. The thumb ramp on the Sage allows for good angle and retention on the ramp and the ramp is still low profiled enough to allow movement of my thumb on top of the ramp. The Caly's ramp is too steep and constraining with limited thumb positions. The Caly's ramp really only really allows for your thumb jambed in behind the ramp.

Back to locks:

Mid-locks are requiring a lot of adjustment for me as well. I want and require single-handed folder operation in deployment and closing. I have gotten to where I can close the mid-locks with one hand, but I have to pay attention. My Dragonfly has already nipped my little finger twice. -
The smaller Dragonfly is apparently a little more tricky to function and keep fingers out of blade path. The Caly III is better for me than my Dragonfly, but nowhere near as natural for me as a good liner lock.

.

 

[abcdef]

This is the first Spydie I have seen in a long time that I really want to buy - almost got a Phoenix. However, I won't pull the trigger unless it is offered as a lefty. My left handed Chris Reeve's have spoiled me for frame/liner locks.

 

[DWRW]

Upon looking carefully at the picks of the upcoming Sage RIL, I notice a few little details I think I might like improved.

The clip over the lock slit has been addressed, but I agree: It needs to be fixed. I love the Spyderco Wire clips. But, I am confident I would have issue with a given side of the wire clip nesting within the locks slit.

I can think of multiple ways to address this issue, but without knowing some of the fabrication steps for production, I don't know what is best.

In any event, I think the locks slit should center between the two sides of the wire clip. So, adjust the angle of the clip or reshape the cut of the slit for the lock.

I think having the back hole side of the locks slit centered between the two tips of the clips base is appropriate. So, I would try to maintain that alignment.

I also like the cut-out hole at the corner of the locks slit to be centered behind the pivot-screw.

-----------

I also notice there appears to be machine marks on the angled notch for the lock release. I hope those are smooth like the rest of the knife on production versions.:

-------------

Little picky details I know, but I also see two obviously seperate radius cuts on the notch. One continuous radious would look much nicer.:

---------------

I also notice part of the scale of the thumb-notch has a little bit of relief and the other is beveled to near sharp. Seems like they should maintain a small constant relief around the entire notch.

I don't know if I described what I meant well, but hopefully my circles on the pictures point out what I am referring to.

.

 

[yablanowitz]

DWRW, the first thing I would suggest for your knives is a a long bath in hot, soapy water. Work the action many times with the knife submerged. Then rinse and dry. I use an air hose, but canned air or even a hairdryer will work. Then a drop or two of oil on the pivot (I use Rem-Oil with Teflon) should take care of it. The pivots may need to be adjusted to suit you, but I seldom have to do that on mine.

My FRN Dragonflies have never been very flickable. I've never handled the SS version, but it might suit you better.

 

[The Deacon]

DWRW, I noted the issue with the two different radii when I returned the knife to Sal, and AFAIK, it too will be addressed.

As for the other, I liked the effect those "steps" that you view as machine marks created. They were nice and smooth, so I assumed they were intentional. That one may come down to taste.

Regarding the clip, personally I think it would be better to have both "legs" of the wire either sit fully on the lockbar, or fully on the fixed part of the handle. OTOH, simplest fix would probably be just to shorten the clip a bit, which would place the lock cut between its legs.

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[DWRW]

DWRW, I noted the issue with the two different radii when I returned the knife to Sal, and AFAIK, it too will be addressed.

As for the other, I liked the effect those "steps" that you view as machine marks created. They were nice and smooth, so I assumed they were intentional. That one may come down to taste.

Regarding the clip, personally I think it would be better to have both "legs" of the wire either sit fully on the lockbar, or fully on the fixed part of the handle. OTOH, simplest fix would probably be just to shorten the clip a bit, which would place the lock cut between its legs.

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

It sounds like you and Sal have noticed and considered pretty much everything I saw. So, I am confident it will get worked out. :thumbup:

I am not sure about the "steps". I can see it not bothering me too much if it looks just right. But, I assumed the marks were machine marks from the pic. And some machine marks can just look like a lack of finish effort and quality.

My CF Sage actually has steps, but I am easily able to over-look that on CF (or micarta or G10) as it really just shows the layers. On metal like Ti, there aren't any layers, so I assumed machine marks. We'll see....

.

 

[DWRW]

DWRW, the first thing I would suggest for your knives is a a long bath in hot, soapy water. Work the action many times with the knife submerged. Then rinse and dry. I use an air hose, but canned air or even a hairdryer will work. Then a drop or two of oil on the pivot (I use Rem-Oil with Teflon) should take care of it. The pivots may need to be adjusted to suit you, but I seldom have to do that on mine.

My FRN Dragonflies have never been very flickable. I've never handled the SS version, but it might suit you better.

Yab,

I might try some of your suggestions. It feels more like over-tightness and rough metal friction rather than dirt. I have not carried any of these yet and they were factory new to me. So, I know I am not referring to dirt accumulation. Factory dirt seems unlikely (????).

The EWL Slip 2000 is a VERY highly rated metal treatment / anti-friction lubricant and it has worked very well on some other knives. I have been using a lot on my recent Spyderco knives. I guess I will keep working with them.


The FRN Dragonfly not being flickable seems understandable - smaller lightweight mass has less inertia. Considering the SS version would have the same blade and blade weight/mass, I don't see why a heavier "handled" version would make the blade more flickable (????).

I already have a stainless handled Leek that I have modified to be about the same size closed as the Dragonfly. Without fast, easy and smooth blade opening and without being as easy to close as a RIL Leek, I am not sure I see the Dragonfly replacing my modified Leek.

.

 

[yablanowitz]

The extra mass of the stainless handle would make the Spyderdrop opening easier, and the stainless may or may not feel smoother than the FRN since the steel is harder than FRN and may produce less drag. Like I said, I've never handled one so I don't know.

As for "factory dirt/grit", have you ever been in a building where a lot of steel grinding is done? I have, and I still haven't figured out how to keep the airborne grit off the parts and out of assemblies. It amazes me that any knives come out as clean as most do.

 

[Reeek]

If my Walker Sage were any smoother it would open and close itself without my input. It sounds to me like yours has a problem, maybe carbon fiber dust on the washers or something.

Same here . . .

 

[jmcf1949]

Couldn't agree more with you 5.56. Can't believe I almost picked up a Tenacious, till I was informed of the China tag on it. I'll try to stick with stuff made here.

Semper Fi