SAK for edc?

[AreBeeBee]

I found the Classic to be *better* than the Micra for key ring carry due to the light weight. Ultimately though, I found key ring carry to be annoying.... I've found the Micra to be more useful in every way compared to the Classic. Only thing it gives up is the toothpick, which I never found useful (for me and my teeth). More durable, better scissors (for my uses), better selection of tools. The Micras is as ugly as Vulcan artwork, but it's more than earned it keep in my pocket.

Agree totally on key-ring carry. For me, joining them makes both jobs worse: using a key or using a knife. In fact, not only do I remove the tiny split ring, but for some of my key-ring SAKs I have also ground off the pierced "ear" it attaches to. (Otherwise that ear digs into my hand.)

As for multitools — well, I glad they work for you and others, but I still can't warm up to them. Don't like the feel, can't find the tool/blade I want when I want it, it always seems ready to pinch a finger... But MT esthetics don't bother me in the least. In fact, I bought the bright blue Squirt, expecting to like it a whole lot based on how it looked. Then I started to use it —

Anyway, I guess I'm more a knife-guy than a tool-guy.

 

[pinnah]

RBB, the Squirt doesn't do it for me either for the reasons you mention. It rides in my BC kit for things like zipper and stove repair. The Micra on the other hand is well suited for the primary scissors use and better than most folding scissors in that regard. As for the rest of the tools, aobut the same as with an SAK.

Again, not pushing the Micra onto others. Just noting, that it offers me advantages to a single SAK (with the cost of carrying 2 things instead of 1). Just a different way to skin the cat.

 

[znapschatz]

RBB, the Squirt doesn't do it for me either for the reasons you mention. It rides in my BC kit for things like zipper and stove repair. The Micra on the other hand is well suited for the primary scissors use and better than most folding scissors in that regard. As for the rest of the tools, aobut the same as with an SAK.

Again, not pushing the Micra onto others. Just noting, that it offers me advantages to a single SAK (with the cost of carrying 2 things instead of 1). Just a different way to skin the cat.

Pinnah, while I still like Leathermen and SAKs, my opinions about the Micra and Squirt are pretty much the same as yours, except for a P4 I sometimes pair with a Super Tinker for the pliers when I'm going light. When ultra-light, it's always with the Micra. I think the Squirts were designed to be a more refined version with fewer sharp edges and a less "industrial" look than the Micra to attract new customers. But too much was compromised in the process. I like smooth edges as well as the next guy, but utility comes first.

BTW, partly due to your influence, I spent several months with an Opinel to see if it works for me. It was a fun experience. There were things I liked about it, would not feel underknifed if it were all I had, but I don't carry it any more. Thanks for the inspiration, though.

 

[NMpops]

I always carry a SAK of some type and usually a conventional slip joint. If I only carry one, it's a SAK.

 

[Alnamvet68]

They don't quite work for me.

I have XL sized hands and prefer a larger single blade knife. But, I like the functionality of tools for EDC. My solution is to carry a Leatherman Micra in my LFP along with my money clip. The Micra gives me just the set of tools I need most often and I get the better (for me) ergos of a larger knife. Also get the freedom of carrying different EDC knives as my fancy changes.


EDC Pair by Pinnah, on Flickr

This one of many reasons I don't like Opinels; hard use is definitely not what this knife is designed for; getting it wet, well...fuggetaboutit....

[video=youtube;uHteVIzNNb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHteVIzNNb0[/video]

 

[batosai117]

This one of many reasons I don't like Opinels; hard use is definitely not what this knife is designed for; getting it wet, well...fuggetaboutit....

[video=youtube;uHteVIzNNb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHteVIzNNb0[/video]

By the evidence presented in this post I would say that the combination of tools utilized by pinnah would be better served by a Victorinox super tinker easily available at Wally World for about $25 out the door with pouch included

 

[jackknife]

I'm sorry guys, but my horse hocky meter goes off on that one. Dribble a little water and they totally lockup?

Nahhh! I'm a bit critical of Opinels, and they have their faults, but locking up after a little dribble of water is not one of them. That was a staged video greatly exaggerated to make the Opinel look bad by somebody with a prejudiced fed agenda. I have been annoyed at times by the Opinel swelling, but have never had one jam up after the tiny bit of water shown in that video. With a little bit of treatment, I've got my Opinels to survive 30 minutes total submergence and still open up fine, if a bit stiff. I've had an Opinel break on me, but never jam up. I may not be the biggest fan of them, and I wouldn't want one as my only knife and would prefer an alox SAK over any Opinel, but that video is a sham and a discredit to the forum to have posted. Juvenile effort.

 

[Alnamvet68]

I'm sorry guys, but my horse hocky meter goes off on that one. Dribble a little water and they totally lockup?

Nahhh! I'm a bit critical of Opinels, and they have their faults, but locking up after a little dribble of water is not one of them. That was a staged video greatly exaggerated to make the Opinel look bad by somebody with a prejudiced fed agenda. I have been annoyed at times by the Opinel swelling, but have never had one jam up after the tiny bit of water shown in that video. With a little bit of treatment, I've got my Opinels to survive 30 minutes total submergence and still open up fine, if a bit stiff. I've had an Opinel break on me, but never jam up. I may not be the biggest fan of them, and I wouldn't want one as my only knife and would prefer an alox SAK over any Opinel, but that video is a sham and a discredit to the forum to have posted. Juvenile effort.

Say what you will about the "discredit to the forum for posting", but I had an Opinel do exactly that, as well as break. I do a lot of fishing on my boat in the OBX, and about 4 years ago, I brought along a Opinel that was thrown in as a freebee by my fave boating store. The knife was exposed to salt water, as well as the blood of small tuna. After a thorough wash, it was put away, and a week later, the handle did swell up preventing the blade from being deployed. I finally managed to force the blade out, and when I attempted to gut a tuna later in the day, the locking ring failed and the knife was no longer useable.

Sign me Juvenile Fisherman

 

[jackknife]

I'm not saying they don't have their issues, but that video was greatly exaggerated to the point of being blatant anti-Opinel propaganda. They are certainly not my favorite knife, and I'd never take one as my knife if I wanted a knife that would handle everything I may run into. I'll take one alox SAK over any ten Opinels. But they will stand up to moisture fair to middling with just a tiny bit of care. My complaint is that they are too finicky and unreliable for my taste, and I keep one around for some reason I can't put a finger on.

It's all a case of YMMV, but I'd be willing to put up cold hard cash to buy a new Opinel, and dribble a little water on it, and see if it locks up like the video. It'll get a bit stiff, but it won't jam like shown. I'm willing to bet that blade would have opened just fine if he'd really tried instead of faking it. In one shot, you could see the blade starting to open, but he changed his grip and pushed it back in the tiny bit. Obviously faked video. Get some witnesses and I'll do the same thing with a brand new Opinel, and I'll bet a thousand dollars in new 100 dollar bills that I can pull open that knife with my arthritis.

 

[Alnamvet68]

While I can not attest to the veracity or intent of the video poster, nor can I determine if the poster is a Opinel hater, I simply viewed the video with an open mind, knowing full well through personal experience, that a wood handled Opinel does very poorly when exposed to water and/or fluids. Perhaps that is all the poster was trying to convey, instead of making it a 168 hour long YouTube vid to satisfy the naysayers. I am quite sure that a simple dunk in a glass of water would not cause this type of failure, but it gives pause for thought about how rugged and weather resistant these Opinels are, or aren't. That would be my takeaway if I didn't have a similar experience.

 

[znapschatz]

Although my Opinel handle swelled up enough to make it difficult, it never got to the point where I couldn't pull out the blade. Sometimes it took the "Coup Savoyard" to start it, which was entertaining for a while until it wasn't, and all this because of humid weather alone. I can't imagine what it would be like if the knife got actually wet. Even so, if that were the only problem, there are simple treatments that could be made to wet-proof the wooden handle. But before getting around to that, I was cutting on something really stubborn and my twisting and pulling resulted in the locking collar popping out of position and the beginnings of damage to the wood. That ended my trial period with the Opinel. A knife has to do the job.
Someday I might pick it up again, do the wood treatment and such because I am a hobbyist, after all, but for real life these days I prefer my Buck Vantage.

 

[jackknife]

Although my Opinel handle swelled up enough to make it difficult, it never got to the point where I couldn't pull out the blade. Sometimes it took the "Coup Savoyard" to start it, which was entertaining for a while until it wasn't, and all this because of humid weather alone. I can't imagine what it would be like if the knife got actually wet. Even so, if that were the only problem, there are simple treatments that could be made to wet-proof the wooden handle. But before getting around to that, I was cutting on something really stubborn and my twisting and pulling resulted in the locking collar popping out of position and the beginnings of damage to the wood. That ended my trial period with the Opinel. A knife has to do the job.
Someday I might pick it up again, do the wood treatment and such because I am a hobbyist, after all, but for real life these days I prefer my Buck Vantage.

Your experience is exactly why I don't carry an Opinel too often. While they do cut like the dickens, they are just too quirky for me to invest a great deal of time on. I have one, and I think a knife knut should have one, but that's it. To be honest, I haven't found anything an Opinel can do that can't be done just as well if not better with an alox SAK. Yes a Pioneer costs twice what an Opinel does, but then it's many times the knife. While I've never had an Opinel freeze up on me, Ihave broken one, so my faith got tarnished. But, I've never had a SAK let me down. Nor any other pocket knife with real metal construction in the pivot area no matter it's brass, nickle silver or steel. You're right, Zap, a knife has to do the job, but also do it reliably, no matter what the conditions are. Even the friction folders I have from other countries, the pivot area is weather proof. My Sardinian resolza has a horn handle, and it's pretty impervious to any moisture. It has a steel spacer like a backbone going up the entire length of the knife to both reenforce the knife for stress, and counter any swelling.

The Opinel is uninteresting knife from a history point of view, but as an eedc it fails when compared to a SAK. If I were heading out today for a long cross country trip and could only take one single pocket knife, and I couldn't take my Northwoods stockman, then a SAK would be in my pocket, no question. I defiantly wouldn't bother with an Opinel.

Very few pocket knives are equal to an Alox SAK.

 

[batosai117]

That settles it. For opinel blade style but more reliable use the case sodbuster is the winner

 

[Alnamvet68]

That settles it. For opinel blade style but more reliable use the case sodbuster is the winner

Agreed, a sod buster would be the best compromise if you must have a folder of that pattern, or similar.:thumbup:

 

[pinnah]

Holy thread drift!

Ok, some responses on the Opinel...

BREAKAGE - Wood can break. The ability to withstand this depends on the grain and the diameter. As diameter goes up, the Opinel design gets stronger. It is very similar to a garden tool like a rake or spade - a metal ferule over a wooden handle. When extreme leverage is concentrated on the joint, the ferule can bust the wood. But, as with garden tools, this is more likely to happen with smaller handles. I *REAM* on my #9 Opinel like it's a fixed blade and haven't come close to busting it. I feel less confident about the #8 (never broken one but it's conceivable to me) and wouldn't push a #7 or #6 at all.

THE LOCK - The lock on an Opinel won't stop the blade from closing and anybody who fails to get this will get cut fingers. It's not designed for that.

TUNE AN OPINEL, TUNE A VANTAGE AND TUNA FISH - The Opinel is a quirky knife and I won't recommend them to people who can't be bothered with tuning them. This is a massive difference with SAKs which can't be tuned even if you wanted/needed to. If you want a good out of the box experience, get a SAK, not an Opinel. Problems with Opinel's seizing up when wet are 90% (not 100%, but 90%) user error. If an Opinel is going to be used in super wet environments, the wood needs to be treated (mineral oil or Vaseline both work well). I think Opinel would do well to increase their plastic handled offerings for this reason. I use waxable XC skis (instead of no-brainer no-wax skis) and can change my own tires, so I'm not adverse to tuning my Opinels to get better performance out of them.

@Znap: glad you're having good luck with the Vantage. Problems with the Vantage out of the box is a recurring topic in the Buck sub-forum and the standard answer is to learn to tune the Vantage to deal with blade centering, rattling and lock up issues. I agree with you though, it's one of Bucks better knives. More on that in a bit. And the fact that you need to tune it doesn't make it not a great knife. Same goes with the Opinel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLKjOhgZ8Vw

@Alnamvet: your complaints about the Opinel locking up remind of people who complain about waxing XC skis when the real issue is that they haven't learned how yet. If the knife locked up when wet, that was a result of you not knowing about how to prep an Opinel. I also suspect that your lockring failure means you popped the ring off and if that is the case, it was definitely still useable as the friction folder it was originally designed as.

DURABILITY: OPINEL VS SLIP JOINTS - I've wrecked enough slip joints in my days, including SAKs to understand their limits. The primary limit is dealing with lateral stress on the blade. Sorry. My Opinel #9 is way tougher than any slip joint I've ever used in this regard. The sodbuster design with it's massive pivot is the only exception to this. I've never had an Opinel develop even a hint of lateral play.

DURABILITY: OPINEL VS LOCK-BACK - I've owned a bunch of lockbacks from Buck, Schrade and several other makers. They tend to loosen up and develop vertical play when exposed to hard cutting, as in with wood. The Opinel does not.


Horses for courses, as they say. The Opinel is not the perfect knife for all purposes. But, the Opinel #9 fits my big hands and the traditional SAK does not. The Opinel #9 has great ergonomics made even better because the wood is formable to fit my hand. The SAKs I've use have horrible ergonomics with the exception of the 111mm line. The Opinel #9 has not come close to breaking and has developed any blade play in any direction under hard cutting use, particularly in wood. Slipjoints including SAKs and lockbacks including those from Buck have failed and loosened up in similar use. The Opinel is insanely light for its size and toughness. SAKs are heavier and don't over any durability advantage. As an ounce counter in my backcountry travel, that's a no-brainer. Opinels do require more user tuning than SAKs. This is true. But they don't lock up when wet if cared for and can be dropped in the sand/dirt and still operate; conditions that reduce slip joints and lockbacks to a grinding halt.


Back to the original point of OP... SAKs for EDC? No, not really. Not for me. I find other knives to be better for EDC and for hard use.


EDIT to ADD: As much as I like the Opinel for backpacking and hard use, I don't *always* carry it for EDC. Today, I'm carrying my Buck 500. While the 500 isn't as tough as the Vantage or the Opinel, it's a pretty knife. By off loading all my EDC tool needs to the small, light but tough Leatherman Micra, I gain the freedom to change out my EDC knife to suit my whim.
Buck 500 by Pinnah, on Flickr

 

[billsch8]

Lot's of interesting opinions and comments in this thread. For me I always (i.e. Everyday) have a SAK classic so I guess its my "true" EDC and its frequently paired with either a Cadet, a Soldier or a Pioneer. Of course, I have a bunch of other knives which must be carried, so my SAK Classic always has a partner! But, hey I'm a big SAK fan and use that little Classic daily!

 

[Brew-Jitsu]

I always have a SAK (Farmer/Cadet/Waiter/Tinker/Huntsman) + another knife (usually an Endura/BK14/Little Creek) at this point, but I always have a SAK with me.

 

[znapschatz]

Holy thread drift!

Ok, some responses on the Opinel...

BREAKAGE - Wood can break. The ability to withstand this depends on the grain and the diameter. As diameter goes up, the Opinel design gets stronger. It is very similar to a garden tool like a rake or spade - a metal ferule over a wooden handle. When extreme leverage is concentrated on the joint, the ferule can bust the wood. But, as with garden tools, this is more likely to happen with smaller handles. I *REAM* on my #9 Opinel like it's a fixed blade and haven't come close to busting it. I feel less confident about the #8 (never broken one but it's conceivable to me) and wouldn't push a #7 or #6 at all.

My Opinel is a #8, so maybe what I described would not have happened with a #9. Maybe I'll check that out some day.

THE LOCK - The lock on an Opinel won't stop the blade from closing and anybody who fails to get this will get cut fingers. It's not designed for that.

TUNE AN OPINEL, TUNE A VANTAGE AND TUNA FISH - The Opinel is a quirky knife and I won't recommend them to people who can't be bothered with tuning them. This is a massive difference with SAKs which can't be tuned even if you wanted/needed to. If you want a good out of the box experience, get a SAK, not an Opinel. Problems with Opinel's seizing up when wet are 90% (not 100%, but 90%) user error. If an Opinel is going to be used in super wet environments, the wood needs to be treated (mineral oil or Vaseline both work well). I think Opinel would do well to increase their plastic handled offerings for this reason. I use waxable XC skis (instead of no-brainer no-wax skis) and can change my own tires, so I'm not adverse to tuning my Opinels to get better performance out of them.

Tuning up knives is okay with me. I enjoy knife care and maintenance duties. After boning up on the subject of Opinel care (mostly at this forum, btw) I was prepared to do touchups on the blade, which I did, and dip the handle in some kind of water resisting treatment, but left that for a future project. Everything was fine until midsummer, and not even a terribly humid one, when the wood swelled. By then, however, I decided to bag Opinel, at least for the time being.

@Znap: glad you're having good luck with the Vantage. Problems with the Vantage out of the box is a recurring topic in the Buck sub-forum and the standard answer is to learn to tune the Vantage to deal with blade centering, rattling and lock up issues. I agree with you though, it's one of Bucks better knives. More on that in a bit. And the fact that you need to tune it doesn't make it not a great knife. Same goes with the Opinel.

Oh, I had issues with an early small Vantage. Nice design, but showed signs of having been rushed to market. Once again, due to discussions on this forum, I was prepared for that. After a warranty swap with Buck and a some minor knocking down of sharp edges, it wound up nicely tuned. Then I found a perfect large, needed nothing. Luck is most of what life is about.

@Alnamvet: your complaints about the Opinel locking up remind of people who complain about waxing XC skis when the real issue is that they haven't learned how yet. If the knife locked up when wet, that was a result of you not knowing about how to prep an Opinel. I also suspect that your lockring failure means you popped the ring off and if that is the case, it was definitely still useable as the friction folder it was originally designed as.

DURABILITY: OPINEL VS SLIP JOINTS - I've wrecked enough slip joints in my days, including SAKs to understand their limits. The primary limit is dealing with lateral stress on the blade. Sorry. My Opinel #9 is way tougher than any slip joint I've ever used in this regard. The sodbuster design with it's massive pivot is the only exception to this. I've never had an Opinel develop even a hint of lateral play.

DURABILITY: OPINEL VS LOCK-BACK - I've owned a bunch of lockbacks from Buck, Schrade and several other makers. They tend to loosen up and develop vertical play when exposed to hard cutting, as in with wood. The Opinel does not.

Horses for courses, as they say. The Opinel is not the perfect knife for all purposes. But, the Opinel #9 fits my big hands and the traditional SAK does not. The Opinel #9 has great ergonomics made even better because the wood is formable to fit my hand. The SAKs I've use have horrible ergonomics with the exception of the 111mm line. The Opinel #9 has not come close to breaking and has developed any blade play in any direction under hard cutting use, particularly in wood. Slipjoints including SAKs and lockbacks including those from Buck have failed and loosened up in similar use. The Opinel is insanely light for its size and toughness. SAKs are heavier and don't over any durability advantage. As an ounce counter in my backcountry travel, that's a no-brainer. Opinels do require more user tuning than SAKs. This is true. But they don't lock up when wet if cared for and can be dropped in the sand/dirt and still operate; conditions that reduce slip joints and lockbacks to a grinding halt.

Back to the original point of OP... SAKs for EDC? No, not really. Not for me. I find other knives to be better for EDC and for hard use.

EDIT to ADD: As much as I like the Opinel for backpacking and hard use, I don't *always* carry it for EDC. Today, I'm carrying my Buck 500. While the 500 isn't as tough as the Vantage or the Opinel, it's a pretty knife. By off loading all my EDC tool needs to the small, light but tough Leatherman Micra, I gain the freedom to change out my EDC knife to suit my whim.

Many good points. Lots to consider.

 

[batosai117]

pinnah will be happy to hear that I added a new member to my family of EDC today, a Leatherman Micra. It will be a great partner to my primary 93 mm SAK for EDC tasks. It has already earned its keep by opening up a toy gun for my son today as well as opening up a Philips screw to put batteries in the said gun (nerf gun).

 

[pinnah]

Which SAK is that. Looks like a good combination.

If you like the Micra 1/2 as much as I do, you will love it.