SAK's - stuck in the past?

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Nov 30, 2000
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I have a few different SAK's that I occasionally carry. I enjoy the small size, light weight, ergonomics, and variety of functions that they offer.

However, it seems odd to me that knife-wise, they seem to be stuck in a rut. Not that they are particularily bad - more that they could be better. It seems like recently, all SAK innovation has been around cramming more and more electrical devices (lights/watches/altimeters/etc) into the handle.

I would really like to have a SAK with
1) A pocket clip
2) One hand opening
3) Better scales (Alox is a good start)

The new Victorinox one handed Trailmaster seems like a big step. It has one hand opening, and a locking blade. However, it is a pretty good sized knife, and still comes equipped with a key ring. And, it has those plastic scales that I always seem to break loose.

The "new" Farmer shown on equipped.org looks like a good start too. But, once again, it has the "wonderful" key ring. On top of that, it doesn't have one hand opening, a locking blade, or tweezers/toothpick.

Another issue is the so-called "hiking" knives that come equipped with bottle and can openers. I can't tell you the last time I went hiking/backpacking with canned food and glass bottles.

Are there any other options out there?

The new small multitools are a good option, but I would really prefer still having the toothpick and tweezers.

Why doesn't Victorinox/Wenger catch up with the rest of the industry?

-- Rob
 
You could also say that they have defined a successful niche market for themselves.

Not everyone wants a one hand opening and pocket clips.
 
Originally posted by DaveH
Not everyone wants a one hand opening and pocket clips.

I suppose you're right.

But, I would guess that a substantial portion of the market would purchase a SAK with those features.

You would think that some other manufacturer would launch a model to bridge the gap.

-- Rob
 
Old, yes. Outdated and inferior, no. (BTW good price too.)

It is not a combat blade, or a survival blade, it is more of a gentleman's knife. A great edc.

If I was going to war I'd bring my SAK "Tinker". Why? As a creature comfort. It does many things well. Although the can opener and bottle opener dont really do much they can and will do their assigned function well.

I have been the life of parties where my bottle opener was the only one in the place, and I used the can opener for a semester cause I got tired of breaking the ones that didnt come on a pocket knife!

The thin blade is great for cutting up fruit, meat, and takes a good edge fast.

Also, classic design. What more can I say?

BTW, a khukri is in the same category and does the more aggressive stuff too.
 
Originally posted by baraqyal
I would really like to have a SAK with
1) A pocket clip
2) One hand opening
3) Better scales (Alox is a good start)

(1) Pocket clip - I think this is just a difference in carry philosophy - some like to carry knives fully in-pocket, and there are still many occassions when even a pocket-clip can be inappropriate - in which case there isn't a need for a clip - I think a knife at less than about 3.9" is fine for an in-pocket carry. Don't get me wrong - I love pocket-clips - just that's for a different kind of knife (carry) for me.

(2) one hand opening - I don't disagree that this is handy - but for me a lot of one-handers suffer from a lack of confidence in their ability to remain closed when carried/in-pocket - for example a typical liner-lock can be shaken/snapped open - whereas one cannot normally do this with a slip-joint. Thumb studs would get in the way of opening other tools, and a hole would protrude to give the knife a wider/larger profile.

(3) Scales - some models are offered in different scales already standard - the Alox scale has been around for many, many years since the "Soldier" model is Alox and that has been standard Swiss army issue for years. Also if you want tools in the handle then the scales probably have to be the way they are for manufacturing economy.... after all one can get a Victorinox SwissChamp for under $40 - for that kind of functionality and quality - that's some kind of a bargain. Victorinox at one time offered special "customized" handles on some of their "standard" models - there are also people who do customize handles.
 
>"Another issue is the so-called 'hiking' knives that come equipped with bottle and can openers. I can't tell you the last time I went hiking/backpacking with canned food and glass bottles.

Are there any other options out there?

The new small multitools are a good option ..."

===============================

Remember, SAKs are sold around the world. And I know from experience that in Europe most bottled beverages (all beers, from what I could tell) come with non-twist-off caps, so you do need an opener. You'll see folks using their SAKs (or other type pocketknives) to open bottles all the time. And remember, Europe is much more dense than North America, so a "day hike through the forest" over there might actually bring you in contact with two or three tiny villages. And tiny villages have stores that sell cold beer to thirsty hikers. :D

When my wife and I travel (meaning "roughing it" travel like when we backpacked around Turkey) we almost always end up bringing along some canned food such as stew, goulash, fruit cocktail, tuna, etc.

Lastly, unlike the new small multitools you mentioned, Victorinox uses a grade of blade steel that elicits few complaints and, in fact, has legions of fans (myself included). Simple, stain-resistant, takes and holds a decent edge and very easy to sharpen.

SAKs stuck in the past? Maybe. But they make a time-tested product that works and works quite well.
 
Hmm.. well, I guess I better clarify a bit.

There isn't a model that fits my particular set of criteria.

I don't think that all models need to have those features. But, one model would be nice.

The key ring really bothers me. Some of the bigger models are getting really big. IMHO, too big to carry attached to keys. Most other manufacturers sell single bladed knives that come equipped with them.

As for the one handed opening - I don't think it is lock security is a real issue. The lock on the one handed trailmaster is, afaik, the same as the regular trailmaster.

I'm not looking for the latest ninja-fied all black G-10 and S30v SAK.

I'm guess I'm just looking for an alox one handed Trailmaster with a clip.

-- Rob
 
Have you tried to modify one of the larger SAK's to suit? You could easitly take the split ring off. It is even possible that you could mount a pocket clip onto the existing scales. I'm not too sure how secure it would be, but CRKT includes a clip for the plastic sheaths of their Stiff Kiss knives, so it might work.

I have looked at the one handed Trailmaster and was not impressed. I didn't like the blade serrations, nor the locking mechanism.

I don't know if the Swiss would say it quite this way, but where Victorinox is concerned: "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." They offer a tremendously wide variety of tools and models, but there is no way that they or any company could suit every possible knife users unique tastes.
 
Originally posted by baraqyal
I don't think that all models need to have those features. But, one model would be nice.
<snip>
The key ring really bothers me. Some of the bigger models are getting really big. IMHO, too big to carry attached to keys.
<snip>
I'm guess I'm just looking for an alox one handed Trailmaster with a clip.

You might be able to get what you want without having to change every SAK out there :D :D :D
- or even waiting for either manufacturer to produce just the model you want....

Get a one-handed Trailmaster -
remove the off-side handle - or whichever side you want the pocket clip to be on - fashion/shape a scale to match the size/holes of the removed scale out of whatever material you want (aluminum?) - but attach a pocket clip to the end you prefer - [You can obviously also attach the pocket clip to the existing scale (but watch out for the inlet tools)] -
and there! You have a pocket-clip version of the Trailmaster.

You can similarly just replace the other scale if you really don't like the cellidor scales - but you'll have to work out how to inlet the handles to accept the tools -
note Victorinox handle scales actually flex to accommodate holding of the tools (try pinching the scales hard and remove the toothpick......)

Keyrings are often useful for attaching a lanyard to the knife for either neck carry, or security when there might be the possibility of dropping the knife. But if you really don't like the keyring you can saw and file it off......
 
Originally posted by mnblade
Remember, SAKs are sold around the world.

That is a very good point and was something that I did not consider.

Hiking in Europe sounds like a lot of fun.

-- Rob
 
I would love to see a 'Soldier' or 'Pioneer' model with a corkscrew and a liner lock for the blade.. Other than that it pretty much would have everything I would want..
 
Rob,

I agree with your opinion on adding too many gee-whiz gadgets. I don't like to see a classic design messed up that way, and the new features have no use for me.

On the question of the can and bottle openers, the problem that I have is that they reduce somewhat the usefulness of the screwdrivers. I prefer dedicated screwdrivers, but when I really need those, I carry a multitool.

On the other three issues, my opinions differ from yours. I don't want a clip, because the clip position on my pocket is already occupied with another folder. I like folders clipped to the pocket, and SAKs/multitools in the pocket, either front or rear. One hand opening is not a requirement for me either. Also, I like both the plastic and the metal handles. No problems with either in daily use. In fact, I much prefer the plastic scales over a metal liner than the linerless FRN on more modern knives.
 
As a person who has spent a fair amount of time in Africa, I can vouch for the great utility of SAKs. If I could only have one knife, I would pick an SAK over one of my custom one handers in a minute because it is such a versatile tool. I like the fact the fact that the bulk of SAKs are two handers and non-locking. The great advantage of the SAK is that it is a knife that is universally recognized as a non-threatening tool. That is not to say that Victorinox or Wegner could not make a model or two with one hand ability or clips, I just would not want the SAK in general to look like that. Finally, I think that the loop or chain on SAKs is more properly seen as a lanyard attachment whenit is on smaller knives, not a keychain loop.
 
IMO SAK's are one of the most, if not THE most value for money items anyone can buy. Add to this the shear vast range of products available to suit all age groups and applications, further emphasises what great tools they are.

Buy a Soldier for $15 or so (not sure how much they are in the US) and you have a knife which quite possibly could last you a lifetime and no doubt be passed on to your grandchildren. What other product could you possibly buy that you say this of ?

It is because of this universal SAK acceptance and the fact they are indeed sold around the world that herein lies a problem. They, in general, appeal to the 'general public' who do not require such features as clips, high grade steels and extravagant locking mechanisms. SAK's are value for money items and this is where they simply excel - no question. They maintain a high degree of 'value for money' because the materials and features they adopt are ideally suited to the demands and pockets of the general public (and Soldiers I might add ;) )

That being said, I am all for product development and market diversification. Maybe Victorinox should look in to making more 'tactical style' blades but I feel that they already have a very strong market position already with their existing range and once they move into the tactical market, prices would rise accordingly and move away from the SAK ideal of 'best bang for the buck' tool.

Who knows, it may well happen but I doubt it.
Just my 2 pence worth :)

As a side note, to this. What steel used in SAK's and multitools (i.e. Leatherman) have you found to be superior in terms of durability, ease of sharpening and edge retention ? I know that SAK steel has never let me down. Just keen to learn your thoughts.

Tardis
 
According to press information from Victorinox's web site, they produce 34,000 SAKs per day. If they take weekends off (and I'm not sure they do) that would be 8.8 million knives a year.
Every day, they also make another 38,000 "other pocket tools" (keychain SAKs? I'm not sure how they make the distinction) so the number is more than doubled.
Then there are the 30,000 kitchen or professional knives they make each day--but our questions don't apply to those.
Apparently there's a whole hell of a lot more buyers out there who don't need G-10 and one-hand opening than buyers who do.
By the way, I love Spydie holes, almite, Axis locks, and all that good stuff--but any of those would make the SAK's more expensive than their market point.
(Doesn't mean they couldn't experiment with it on some models; they have lots of special-interest models; but they will be very cautious about anything that would affect the knife's other functions, like the way the multiple blades go together.)

BTW I always like to have a bottle opener with me on a hike or bike ride -- there's always some bottle than needs opening. :)
 
I think SAKs are very handy and very well designed. However, I do think that Victorinox and Wenger will continue to evolve in order to meet the Multi-tool challengers like Gerber and Leatherman.

While Victorinox and Wenger are safe in their specialty for now, there has been amazing improvements in the mini-multitool field. Tools like the Leatherman Juice and Squirt series and the Gerber Compact Sport are winning over alot of SAK fans.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
In the past?

they've been doing pretty good for quite some years! The one handed trailmaster could use some refining, but its a start! as far as alox, thye've been using it on the soldier model since the 60's and there were some models with alox in the late 50's (elinox marked ones).

They've been using a high grade chrome moly. steel for tha blades for quite some years, so the steel is still good for what they are. The knives still fill a great "niche". As far as possibilities in their carry (the key rings, ect.) you should check into that. They make many different knife chains that you can attach the knife keyring to one clip, clip it to your belt loop, and then take the other end of the chain and clip it to your car keys. They sell many more products then we are use to seeing in the states. When I was stationed in Germany years ago (90-91) you could find different kinds of sak's and accessories.

check out swiss-knife.com in Switzerland, they have a few different products you will not find in the states.

If you have any suggestions why not write them?
 
Originally posted by allenC
I think SAKs are very handy and very well designed. However, I do think that Victorinox and Wenger will continue to evolve in order to meet the Multi-tool challengers like Gerber and Leatherman.

While Victorinox and Wenger are safe in their specialty for now, there has been amazing improvements in the mini-multitool field. Tools like the Leatherman Juice and Squirt series and the Gerber Compact Sport are winning over alot of SAK fans.
And then, there are customers like us forum members, where knives/pocket tools are not a zero-sum game...;) As long as I have four pockets, I don't see any reason to have to choose one over the other. If a Tinker is good, and a Juice S2 is good, then both carried together must be dang near perfect...:)
 
I think the CyberTool was made with modern ideas in mind.
I have a CyberTool and I use the hell out of it. I use it every day. It is a very urban-minded tool compared to Vic/Weg's traditional trend toward camping, etc.
I think it's the best one made for the "average Joe".
 
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