SAKs - Victorinox or Wenger

UnknownVT said:
Sorry haven't been checking this thread. Many thanks Burt for the kind words. This comes from being a SAKnife Knut for many years .....:D :D :D and I always wanted to compare Vics and Wengers tool by tool. Thanks again,
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Thanks a tonne, UnknownVT, for a comprehensive review.

Based on my leaning towards Wenger, they were the Originals, and my rather eventful 23 year old relationship (I am 35) with one of their All-in-One models, I always knew that I shall always stick with this knife and buy a Victorinox as a secondary piece.

Recently, while having a bath, it got stolen.

I have been engaged into heavy research, now that the next one shall be the primary one, I was wavering between the two.

Your review of the two, along with some other references helped me decide to stick with Wenger, as much as I would miss the eye in the awl and the hook!

I intend to take the new one, whenever I get it, to my industrialist friend and use those million dollar machines to drill a hole or cut a notch in the awl/reamer and that should do just fine.

What do you have to say about this wishful/potentially harmful (?) idea of mine?

Thanks, once again,

Ra.
 
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Rahul_Does said:
I intend to take the new one, whenever I get it, to my industrialist friend and use those million dollar machines to drill a hole or cut a notch in the awl/reamer and that should do just fine.
What do you have to say about this wishful/potentially harmful (?) idea of mine?
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Sorry for the lateness of this reply -
I haven't been monitoring this old thread.

Thanks for your continued interest and feedback.

Many people have customized and modified SAKs - both Wenger and Victorinox - without the aid of $million machines.

The only slight warning may be to watch out for possible change in the tempering of the awl when subjected to possible high temperatures due to the drilling - but if the machine used is $million worth one should be able to control the speed and possibly the temperature so that no real harm will come of the modification.

Here are a couple of pics of some modified SAKs - not just the handles but some mods on the tools too:
KJLewis1.jpg


KJLewis2.jpg

There were done by KJ Lewis a while back -
he's the one who customized my EDC Victorinox Scientist:
Scientist2.jpg

my daily carry for 19 years.......
unfortunately he no longer does this kind of work.

Please come back and show us a pic of your modification?

--
Vincent

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Vincent, do you find latest series of Vics have soter steel? I bought some back in 2006, and just last year added One Hand Sentinel. No matter how I tried sharpening it, the edge won't take sharpness, nor hold it for long.

The use are overall the same. Daily opening mail, instant coffee packages, light cutting veggies.

All my older SAKs from 2006 has about same sharpness & retention.
 
Chris "Anagarika";9348098 said:
Vincent, do you find latest series of Vics have soter steel? I bought some back in 2006, and just last year added One Hand Sentinel. No matter how I tried sharpening it, the edge won't take sharpness, nor hold it for long.

The use are overall the same. Daily opening mail, instant coffee packages, light cutting veggies.

All my older SAKs from 2006 has about same sharpness & retention.
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They should be using the same steel and treatment -
Victorinox remains competitive by manufacturing scale and keeping thing uniform.

If you do have a sample that is not able to take an edge -
(as long as you are sharpening correctly)
this just simply sounds WRONG -
no knife that is sold as a knife should be that bad.

Contact Victorinox and tell them of your dissatisfaction -
they are supposed to have a good lifetime guarantee for SAKs.

You may have to find Victorinox that covers your part of the world
typing in Victorinox.com probably will get you there -
where you should be able find their Customer Service Contact page.

Please let us know what transpires?

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
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Thank you for quick response. I will give it another try and update the result. As direct comparison, the Bundeswehr (German Army) OHT took a sharper edge.

Actually it's not that bad. It will take edge, but losing it much quicker than the Spartan Lite I bought earlier ... that's what makes me wondering if the QC drops in Heat Treat dept.

Note: I always sharpen away the serration, so it's fully plain edge. That shouldn't change anything in steel comparison IMHO
 
Chris "Anagarika";9350217 said:
Actually it's not that bad. It will take edge, but losing it much quicker than the Spartan Lite I bought earlier ... that's what makes me wondering if the QC drops in Heat Treat dept.
Note: I always sharpen away the serration, so it's fully plain edge. That shouldn't change anything in steel comparison IMHO
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I doubt if Victorinox have changed their heat treatment -
they are, if anything, very consistent.

However, that does not mean they couldn't have sample variations.
eg: the fact you have a Victorinox made Bundeswehr (German Army) OHT of similar vintage(?) that manages to hold an edge.

There is a small possibility depending on how you sharpen away the serrations that may affect the tempering -
if it was done with machine and the temperature of the grinding got too hot.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
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UnknownVT said:
Thanks Frank for the compliment.

I too am impressed with some of Wenger's innovations -
but unfortunately I find that both the locking screwdriver and scissors (and pliers) all move relative to the handle - exactly because of their added/innovative functionality.

The moving relative to the handle disturbs me -

Even though I actually know the screwdriver should be safer - one that moves in the handle still upsets me.

Scissors - again because the Wengers move relative to the handle - I find that it does not feel as "precise" in cutting as the Victorinox. I think the confidence plus better precision FAR, FAR outweighs any possible breakage of the Vic spring (for me... YMMV - but I have not had a Vic spring break on me)
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I have. I wrote Victorinox (this was before email) and asked how much a replacement spring was. They sent me a new spring, no charge. Well done, Victorinox.
 
Raymond1000 said:
I have. I wrote Victorinox (this was before email) and asked how much a replacement spring was. They sent me a new spring, no charge. Well done, Victorinox.
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Thank you for that feedback.

The scissors spring obviously do break
- even if it has never happened to me
(and that includes a tiny Classic that I EDC'd which had very hard use)

Victorinox (USA) even has spring replacement as part of their FAQ:
Q. How do I install the scissor spring in my Swiss Army Knife?
A. Please see the link for a diagram of how to install your new spring: Scissor Spring Installation

I am assuming the spring hasn't broken since you replaced it -
how many years is it now, if it was before e-mail?

Having said that the comparison is that the Wenger (who are now actually owned by Victorinox!) scissors spring is actuated by the backspring so would not break - this may be true - but I have also found that the Wenger backspring can sometimes be weakened -
Please see:
UNBELIEVABLE!!! SAK Quality....
WengerBAD_Cyclist_Forrester.jpg


Both nailfiles can actually stand even further out - but this is approx where they will naturally "snap shut" :eek: (cough, cough, splutter!) -
this was only from fanning open all the tools to pose for photographs - so did not last long

Hopefully these may be just a bad batch (although I have two Wengers and a single SwissBuck made by Wenger, and I dare not try any more Wengers to find out) - and with the new ownership perhaps these can be regarded as an anomaly.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
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UnknownVT said:
Thank you for that feedback.

The scissors spring obviously do break
- even if it has never happened to me
(and that includes a tiny Classic that I EDC'd which had very hard use)

Victorinox (USA) even has spring replacement as part of their FAQ:
Q. How do I install the scissor spring in my Swiss Army Knife?
A. Please see the link for a diagram of how to install your new spring: Scissor Spring Installation

I am assuming the spring hasn't broken since you replaced it -
how many years is it now, if it was before e-mail?
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At least thirty.

No further scissors-spring-breakage.
 
I used to have a preference for Wenger, because I like the springless scissors and hate the removable tweezers and toothpick.

Nowadays, I do rather like some of the Vic Alox models though, like the Cadet, Solo, and Farmer. Also, the Victorinox style can opener is much more useful than the Wenger, once you get used to it.
 
Vincent,

I used hand file and stones, not owning power tools ;) but your point is valid ...
To clarify, the GAK OHT was from earlier batch, the thumb hole is still the elongated shape, not the most recent almost round shape.
On the other hand, the backspring of newer Sentinel is much stronger. I have problem closing it one hand in the beginning :) lol

I'll do some more sharpening this weekend and report back.
 
Reporting back:

It sharpened quite well, but still can't match the smaller Spartan Lite or my other Chinese (Sanrenmu & Bee in 8Cr13MoV) in terms of sharpness level (edge seems to roll easily, therefore heat treat is suspect) nor edge retention after light use.

I'll try write them & see how it goes. Owning several knives means that I'm not depending on it alone. So I'm not going to use much time/energy on this issue. I'll do this at leisure, but will report back the final outcome.
 
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BlackRazor said:
yeah, but Vic doesn't make the cool little locking mechanism that's available on some of the Wengers. Gotta have a locking main blade!

-Robert
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They don't? What about the reverse liner lock more commonly seen on the One Hand Trekker or the sliding lock on my Fireman? LOL
 
Update:

I got in touch with Victorinox through their feedback form & was followed up by email.

It is confirmed that they do not change the steel alloy at all and that the heat treatment as well. I decided to give it a try one more time with info I got: best angle is 30-40 degree inclusive. I might have thin this one down too much ...

Will update again with the result.

One thing is confirmed : top customer service. I won't divulge all the details but the conclusion that they will go out to address any valid issues to fulfill their lifetime satisfaction warranty.
 
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Based on discussion with the Quality Director, I took a few light passes on the slot of pocket sharpener 4.3323 that I have. It turned out amazing!

So basically, I was having an unusually large burr all along because of trying to thin it down too much. Going through the slot removed it completely, and I ended up with a very sharp edge.

As of edge holding, after 2 days of use and 2 full shaving session, now I can say that it holds the edge similar to others I have.

Conclusion: nothing wrong with the steel or heat treat, but the user (me).

Lesson learnt is that there is a limit for each steel to be thinned down and albeit many claims that manufacturer produce obtuse edge to anticipate non knife people's abuse, there is merit on letting the factory edge be tested (see Richard J's thread on Maintenance subforum). It's not always the best, but in the case of SAK, bringing it down below 30 inclusive won't help ;).
After all, the blade profile is usually thin already, making it great slicer.
 
To anyone looking for modding the scale & have pocket clip installed, SOSAKONLINE.com has resident modders that do beautiful job!

Also check out 'modified production knife' thread on General Forum, there's someone who does also beautiful work. Not sure if he's taking orders. :confused:
 
UnknownVT said:
Sorry for the lateness of this reply -
I haven't been monitoring this old thread.

Thanks for your continued interest and feedback.

Many people have customized and modified SAKs - both Wenger and Victorinox - without the aid of $million machines.
Click to expand...


Hello there, Vincentji.

This time I apologize for the delay.

In India, at authorized showrooms and smuggled goods shops, these things, along with Zippo lighters cost a prohibitive 2-3 X than what they do in USA. Adding to that, my self embraced unemployment and the lack of funds, thereof, did not help. Therefore, I am yet to buy/get one.

Now, however, a cousin is arriving from Canada and I have requested him to get me this friend for the rest of my life, a Wenger 16906 and he has agreed!

Once I get it, I shall check out the awl and try to drill in it my head to NOT to go for the hole, enervating the structural strength.

I am sure, that 1. is a bad idea.
TCP_cr.jpg
2 Still makes a little sense.​

What do you say?

I shall have to hunt along my list of friends and then find who is using the most advanced machinery. However, there is still a lot of time and as and when I get into it, I shall let you know. I am forwarding this link to one of my most technical friends. He modified my 1937 Model 418 Beretta. My reliance on the machinery is due to my very clumsy hand and I shall request some friend to make the hole.

I shall keep you posted.

Thanks for the response, again.

Regards.

Ra.

PS. Evo Grip is also a contender because of a feared unavailability of the classic design. What do you say, Vincent Dada?​
 
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