Sal, how has the internet changed the way you do business?

David,

If you read through all the posts (remember this spans more than just this forum) and understand them, you should understand why we are defending liz. If you've read through all the posts and understood them, and still believe what you believe, then that's fine. Everyone sees things in a different light.

Ghostsix,

Sal is right, no one should be discarded.

------------------
Johnny
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Sal, a key thing seems to be figuring out what's an "impulse buy" and what's a "carefully studied decision".

I'll impulse-buy up to about $50, personally, and that's rare.

I guess there may be a third type, "collectors" who simply must have the latest model of whatever their favorite maker is. Over on the HI forum they joke about "HIKV" where "KV" is "Khukuri Virus", and list a dozen models or more owned each. To me that's...well, weird. I buy the one I want or need and *admire* the rest. This particular subforum attracts a LOT of Spydie collectors out of all proportion to how common they really are...people with more than a couple of Spydies are relatively rare.

When I impulse-buy, I want to fondle. What drives the storefronts NUTS is fondlers who then goto the 'net. I do NOT do that, but even when I fondle I'm a picky buyer, so there are cases where a retail dealer may *think* I just pulled a "fondle there, buy elsewhere" on them when that's not actually the case. In that sense, the 'net may be creating "stress" just by perception versus reality.

Jim
 
I am glad to hear that some of you read all of my posts to get a true idea.I am not writing a paper;I`ll fake the spelling,punctuation, and the typos,unless they come out really bad.I`m not paid to work at this.I never delete,and seldom edit.What you see is what you get.I`ll stand by what I say.I admit that some of my posts do not belong where I put them.That makes them no less true.I do get a few E-Mails asking for clarification.I have responded to all,as time permits.It might take me a few days.I may have been hard on Liz,but I`d bet that her paper comes out the better for it.

------------------
 
Liz - Thought up a few more. I think that "speed" & "Sharing" would be major issues and advantage of the internet.

For example, this forum has permitted rapid communication between me and the Spyderco ELU (& Bruce). Entire conversations can be carried on in a day across many miles.

I remember mailing letters to Seki. A week out and a week back for one communication. Then FAX turned that to one day out and one day back. Now, with Email, that can be done in minutes.

"Sharing" of information through forums permits a number of people to be involved in a comunication.

sal
 
double post

[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 14 November 1999).]
 
Liz,

sorry, my fault. The 3rd + 4th paragraphs were not meant for you. I know that you did not ask G6 for apology.

David
 
from a customer's vantage point:

i am much more likely to buy online than at a knife store, and so the rise of internet shopping has greatly increased my spending! online sources have selection, service, and a wealth of information not available from my local store. i also like the hours of online shops
wink.gif
-- my offwork hours don't match mall hours very well.

also: due to a couple bad experiences with knife salesmen (mostly the younger hired help, not the owners), i feel a bit uncomfortable walking into a knife store. i feel like i'm not taken seriously--an attitude mentioned above, but clearly not shared by everyone (Colonel: you do not need to be discarded, you simply need to be respectful ... everyone else: thanks for the encouragement you give us knifegals! ... liz: you GO girl!). i realize not all stores or salesfolk are this way; i've just met up with the ones who needed some real-life education about women (and less lockerroom speculation).

still, who wants to shop for toys in that atmosphere? why should i pay someone who is making me uncomfortable? i'd much rather buy from some online dealer with whom i've had interactions (on BF and elsewhere) characterized by mutual respect.

when i shop online, i can do all the research i like, except for actually handling the knife. i can "ask" any question i want, and not feel patronized or brushed aside. i'm the first to admit that i don't know enough about knives (most of what i know i've learned on BF!)... i have lots of questions, but i won't ask them unless i feel comfortable doing so...and know what? i don't take out my wallet until i've asked every last dang question i need to ask.

the problem is that as a small-handed person, i really need to handle the knives before i buy. this causes a dilemma: i do want to support local stores, and not fondle and run; but i don't like shopping in an uncomfortable atmosphere. my solution: join BF to educate myself enough so that i can walk into stores/shows with some chutzpah!
smile.gif


the internet also gives me a wider range of products to choose from. my local knife stores do not carry khukuri's, so i never would have even known what they were if not for this forum. i don't know that i will ever catch HIKV
biggrin.gif
but if i do, i could find a website and place an order within about ten minutes.

if i really wanted the knife i saw on the internet but also wanted to support my local store, i could ask the store owner to order it for me. the internet has a bigger catalog of what's out there than the mall store! this causes dilemmas for me, though: i feel loyal to the web stores i buy from. i spend lots of time happily browsing online knife sites, more than i spend in realtime stores. it's a lot of work to put up and maintain a website; online merchants deserve fair patronage too.

that's my .02...liz, i don't think your question was really aimed at customers; hopefully my words can help round out the picture a bit nonetheless. i think internet shop owners and realtime shop owners alike could learn a valuable lesson from this thread: if you don't take women-as-knife-buyers seriously, women who buy knives will take their serious knife business elsewhere.

[oh, and David1967: i use lowercase all the time because i have hand/arm/shoulder injuries--the less i use the shift key, the longer i can stay at the keyboard! (using the shift key is a significant stressor on your body.) i only use the shift key for emphasis, or when i type someone's name, so i can show respect by spelling it the way they prefer. i'm well educated, and i write professionally, so i know The Right Way to do things...i just want to be kind to my body so it will allow me a precious few more moments online
wink.gif
]

silverwing
san diego, california

[This message has been edited by silverwing (edited 16 November 1999).]
 
Off topic but what the heck. I've been searching for a poem an old girl friend wrote for me a few decades back. In it she suggested that, by using a capital for "I", we were pandering to our own inflated egos and that if we were truly humble we should call ouselves "i" and others "You". She wrote it much better than i can but You get my drift
smile.gif
.

------------------
Take care,
Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.

 
Silverwing, since you don't have an E-mail address, I'll ask you here. You are in my area. You say you have had some bad experiances in knife stores. If any of those have been in my shop I would like to hear about it, if you don't mind. If we have a problem, I want to fix it, ASAP. I would appreciate a response either via E-mail, here, by phone (619) 465-6905 or in person. Thanks.

Lizabelle, Hey! I have read most of these posts with great interest over the past few days and I would like to add my perspective as a "brick-and-mortar" dealer.

Of course the internet has affected my business, as well as every other business. In my case, I am having the best year ever. I have just moved into a new, larger store and am expanding my inventory. Sales are up considerably and I see new customers almost every day. The largest portion of my sales come from the store and gun and knife shows. Show sales are booming.

The thing is, I don't even have a web site. I have picked up some sales from BF by letting it be known that I have some items in stock that others don't have and my prices don't even begin to compete with many of the 'net dealers.(I couldn't survive in business if they did.)

I believe that the net has helped my sales by exposing more people to the products who, even though they own computers and surf the net are not comfortable buying online. There could be many reasons for that and I don't pretend to know them all but I would say they range from distrust of unknown, faceless vendors to a desire to see and handle products before they buy. Also, lots of people just like to go shopping.

I also believe that this somewhat deflates the theory that many espouse that the 'net will destroy all of us who insist on remaining in our storefronts and continue to "defy the future". We aren't going away and, I believe will continue to benefit from the 'net.

It basically amounts to a sort of advertizing that is out there for free. After all, how would I be able to extoll the virtues of any product that I stock without spending big advertizing bucks? With the web I don't have to. There are plenty of folks doing that for me. Every site that advertizes their goods advertizes for me too.

Also, by observing the other sites and reading comments here and elsewhere, I can get a pretty good feel for what the market is doing and which products are "hot" and which manufacturers are having trouble with product reliability and customer service.

All that information is readily available to anyone who is willing to get it and that information can be invaluable to any business that wants to thrive.

As I mentioned earlier, I also sell at gunshows and knife shows and sales there are booming right now. Part of that may be because of the public's perception that the days of the shows are numbered but not all of it can be attributed to that.

I have talked to a lot of people and they tell me things that I find very interesting. First off they are better informed about the products and have a better idea of what they want. Many come in looking for specific items rather than browsing.

Price is not as important to many of them as selection and service. My prices at the shows are, for the most part, higher than almost all of the other dealers yet my sales are up. In fact, some of the other dealers have started to raise their prices to match mine, reversing a trend to try and compete by lowering prices to the point they would lose money at some shows. They finally realized that they actually needed to make a profit if they wanted to stay in business.

Not all of them have done that but several have and they are finding that their sales haven't suffered and they are actually doing better.

Price alone isn't enough to keep many people buying online. Many have related stories of disappointment and disatisfaction with various net transactions. I have heard stories of merchandise received that appeared to be used or damaged, long delays in delivery, exorbitant "shipping and handling" charges and other problems that discouraged many from online shopping. One person told me that he had ordered several knives from a well known online dealer and received four empty boxes. He called the vendor and got replacements but it took 2 months to get them. He said that he was done with online buying. I guess you could say that, in that aspect, the 'net has helped my business too.

So, has the internet affected my business? You bet! Is it going to take ofer the world? I don't think so.

Think about this: about this time last century, Sears and Roebuck came along with their catalog and made it easy to shop from home. Everyone was going to use this new service and the local general store just wouldn't be able to match the selection and service. They were going to take over the retail world. What happened? Most of the catalogs ended up in the outhouses and Sears is now one of the biggest "brick-and-mortar" businesses in the world. In the 80s home shopping on TV came along. I don't know of any stores that have closed up because of them. They didn't take over the world either.

I have heard that by next year there will be around 36 million people shopping online. Since the population of the U.S. is around 350 million that means about 10% online. It also means about 90% in the stores. I'll take those odds.

There's enough room for everyone out here and I believe there will be a symbiotic relationship between the internet and the storefronts.

Will I get a web site? Probably. It will be a good way to promote my store and advertize my existence. Will I go totally online? No. I like my store and I like dealing face to face with my customers.

I didn't intend for this to become so long winded but I hope it helps to get another view. It seems that almost everyone else out there seems to think that the 'net is the only way to go. Of course when such a question is asked of a group of netizens like this the answers are likely to be skewed toward the domination of the market by the internet. I just don't happen to agree with that and, so far, my experiances seem to support my views.

Take care.


------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
(Buy a knife...confuse a liberal)
La Mesa, CA
wrightknife@ixpres.com


 
Many of us do not have a knife shop to hang about in.
Uncle Bill is an administrator.If he could teach,he would.
 
I'm sorry Sal that I continue the talk about some ones language in your forum. This is not the correct place but the conversation is here.

As a native Finnish speaker (who has limited abilities even in Finnish + I have dyslexia)
I had very high threshold to stop lurking in the first place. I was afraid that I can't get my points correctly understood without somebody pointing my defective english. I hope you all can understand me now. I find it hard to find the right pronouns as in Finnish we don't have any... We don't have set word order...ect.

You who have the benefit to write your native language should not be so strict about language. If we(I consider myself as a member of this community despite of my language barrier) want to keep this forum global we have to be forgiving. Ones knowledge about knifes is not related to ones abilities in ONE of worlds thousands languages.

Sorry again but this has bothered me some time and now that I read this thread I burst.


Liz, Your question was directed to Sal but I wan't to share some experience.

I live in the biggest market area in Finland (about 1 000 000 peoples) and still there is only one knifeshop in this area. In Finland I know only three knifeshops (I don't count factory outlets). Most knives that are sold here are cheap working knifes prices around 5$ (a lot poorer quality than utility pukkos in Mr. Mattisis pages). Most people have one better (30$-80$) puukko. Most of the better ones are bought from sport or fishing stores. Some better ones are sold in deparment stores.

In the beginning of this year I thought that I'll buy one of those weird looking Spyderco foldes that I had seen in my nearest camping/fishing store, one SAK and a couple of puukkos. I thougt that 1000 FIM (about 170$) is the amount of money I'll spend.

In the beginning of March I found first knife page in net (coldsteels
redface.gif
). In mid March I found bladeforums and started lurking. Because of this @ursed forum and all of those foul links to manufacturers pages
wink.gif
I have spend about 1500$ to knives. 70% of my purchases are done through netdealers. I can't afford foreign knifes at shop prices in this extent. Other reason is that most of the most interesting (e.g. other than endura and delica in spydercos case) models are not available. Best thing is of course to be able to handle knifes but if that is not an option pic in net can really help (manufacturers to get me hooked
smile.gif
).

Tommi - knifenut without adequate English skills
 
Tommi- Your English is better than a lot of American born posters to these forums. Post without fear!
 
Tommi - No problem. I always appreciate anyone that operates from...and tries to bring others to...a higher awareness level.

Rules on my forum are pretty simple. Do unto others as yhou would have them do unto you, don't be disrespectful, you know. the important stuff.

BTW, The Distributor for Finland is a great guy and he imports everything we make, even if your local knife store does not stock eveything. You can always contact him directly.

Liz - another example of how the net affects my business. I get to chat with Tommi...in Finland.

sal
 
Sorry Ghost. Not in my house.

sal

[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 18 November 1999).]
 
And who does even know how to teach goes to military.... at least that is what we say.

David
 
David,

What? You're not coming through too well on that last statement. Care to clarify?

------------------
The bible is not such a book a man would write if he could, or could write if he would.

*Lewis S. Chafer

2 Tim 3:16
 
yeah David. As someone who spent almost thirty years in the military, I'd be real interested to know that too.

------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
(Buy a knife...confuse a liberal)
La Mesa, CA
wrightknife@ixpres.com


 
Ghostsix, or whatever your real name is (isn't it easy to insult people when you remain anonymous?), thank you for your insights into the teaching profession. I guess somebody once taught you and it would appear, from your posts, that you don't think that you are incompetent at what you do. Or are you?

I have been a teacher, off and on, for the last 30 years. During that time my students have not only achieved outstanding academic results but have also have come to know me as their friend and confident. I will retire shortly and, when I do, I will be able to look back and know that I have made a significant contribution (in real terms) to the society in which I live.

You, sir, are a troll and I will read no more of your posts.

------------------
Take care,
Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.

 
Ghostsix has been banned so no need to respond to his posts.

Please continue

------------------
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Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

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