san mai 4140/15N20 - what would you do?

nateman_doo

nateman_doo

Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
158
If you had a small pile of 4140 & 15N20....

Would you make the 15N20 the jacket and the core be 4140, or vise versa. I have enough to do one of each. with probably 2 knives of each.

4140 is like the O1 of alloy steels. Gets up to C60 quenched, but you guys probably know that already.
 
Hmmm

4140 is not like O1 at all. O1 has .85-1.1 percent carbon and gets to ~64 HRC out of an oil quench. 4140 has .4 percent carbon and when water quenched gets to ~55. Very different steels indeed. The O1 also has lots of manganese which makes it great for forge welding with nickle steels since it etches so dark.

Honestly, i would do a stack bullet of 15n20 with a 1084 or 1095 or O1 core "maybe no O1 if you havnt done many forge welds, it is rather red short and can crumble if its too hot"
 
4140 hardens but is far from blade steel. Much better suited for hammers, anvil tools, anvils, ect
 
Greenberg Woods said:
Hmmm

4140 is not like O1 at all. O1 has .85-1.1 percent carbon and gets to ~64 HRC out of an oil quench. 4140 has .4 percent carbon and when water quenched gets to ~55. Very different steels indeed. The O1 also has lots of manganese which makes it great for forge welding with nickle steels since it etches so dark.

Honestly, i would do a stack bullet of 15n20 with a 1084 or 1095 or O1 core "maybe no O1 if you havnt done many forge welds, it is rather red short and can crumble if its too hot"
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i know its not like O1, I am just saying its generic alloy steel like O1 is generic tool steel.

So don't use it for core steel, but its fine for a jacket steel.
 
nateman_doo said:
i know its not like O1, I am just saying its generic alloy steel like O1 is generic tool steel.

So don't use it for core steel, but its fine for a jacket steel.
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Ooooo i missread that.

I guess you could. Wouldnt hurt anything. But again, i would recommend 15n20 and 1084 for the slightly cheating reason of, if your edge is off center it still works perfectly fine
 
I have some 4140 that I have no idea what else to do with. I also have some O1 of the same dimensions which I know I could san mai... but I have done 15N20/O1. Just looking for new things to try. I bought the 4140 to make a bevel die in my press. Just didn't know what to do with the rest of it.
The only problem is the 15N20 is in 1/8" so I have to stack it as a core. It didn't look like one contiguous piece. It looked layered. It was cool in its own right, but i was hoping for a solid looking piece. you would think after all these years SOMEONE would make 15N20 thicker...
 
Don Hanson III said:
15N20 was designed and is made for large band saw blades, there is no need to make it any thicker.
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spring steel is made for springs. Doesn't mean it can't be used for other things right? if enough demand was there, free market would make it happen.

I remember a while back Aldo was mentioning that he was looking to get some around 3/8" thick. Not sure what happened with that.
 
I noticed that you only like the answers that coincide with your preconceived notions.

Lots of tough steels out there to fill that market, including L6.

AKS is also looking into having some 15N20 made in thicker sizes.

Hoss
 
Compared to the sawmill blade market, the amount of 15n20 knifemakers buy may as well be their scrap bin. Unless industry starts requiring heavy 15n20 it won't happen short of someone buying a mill run.
L6 isn't that different, and is readily available in round bar
 
nateman_doo said:
spring steel is made for springs. Doesn't mean it can't be used for other things right? if enough demand was there, free market would make it happen.

I remember a while back Aldo was mentioning that he was looking to get some around 3/8" thick. Not sure what happened with that.
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I never said, 15N20 could not be be used for other things. But there is no demand for thicker 15N20.
 
Don Hanson III said:
I never said, 15N20 could not be be used for other things. But there is no demand for thicker 15N20.
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perhaps, but do you remember when there wasnt much of a demand for a AEB-L in thicknesses greater than what you would need for a razor blade or a scalpel ? But seriously what may have happened is that the new rolling mill in Austria may have made it more feasible to do small batches
 
Geoff Flato said:
Compared to the sawmill blade market, the amount of 15n20 knifemakers buy may as well be their scrap bin.
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THIS. This applies to so much of our business. It applies for wood too. As far as I know, Burlsource and myself are two of the only guys who routinely use instrument and veneer grade woods for knife makers. The prices those guys are willing to pay for high end wood is simply absurd, because the demand is there. Knifemaking is and probably always will be a tiny tiny part of the market.
 
jdm61 said:
perhaps, but do you remember when there wasn't much of a demand for a AEB-L in thicknesses greater than what you would need for a razor blade or a scalpel ? But seriously what may have happened is that the new rolling mill in Austria may have made it more feasible to do small batches
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The demand was always there. It took five years of work and and my order for 65,000 pounds to make it happen.

Chuck
 
DevinT said:
I noticed that you only like the answers that coincide with your preconceived notions.

Lots of tough steels out there to fill that market, including L6.

AKS is also looking into having some 15N20 made in thicker sizes.

Hoss
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Well that is a bit judgemental of you isn't it?
What is the preconceived notion? its a supply and demand thing. I didn't think there were that little knife makers around to justify thicker 15N20. Seems like there are hundreds of knife makers in this forum alone.

I know L6 is there, I was just asking if there was thicker 15N20. If Alpha Knife Supply gets some, count me in
 
You react to everone that does not agree with you.

I recommend that you find an experienced smith to mentor you and bounce these types of ideas off of.

This is a good group but sometimes there are too many opinions on things. I see you trying lots of weird stuff, a good mentor can save you years of frustration.

Not trying to tear you down.

Hoss
 
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