sandbar - Some difficulties, perhaps my fault.

[spoonrobot]

I recently sold this knife to forum member sandbar:

SOLD 9.) Spyderco Khukri. "Used" condition, this knife was carried and used but was recently returned from Spyderco for sharpening and has been reconditioned to a certain extent by the company. It now is in excellent condition with only a little wear. $110 $90 shipped.

This is the email I received just a bit ago:

I got the khukri knife and the edge is missing a considerable amount of steel. I don't know who sharpened this last, but it is missing almost a 1/16th inch of the blade.

As per your description, I assumed recently returned from spyderco would mean restored to factory specifications. Not major edge issues and spyderco had to grind it down, in order to give it an edge.

The wave tool condition matches the price and is acceptable, but the khukri isn't acceptable.

Please let me know, where to send it back for a refund. The knife is unacceptable in this condition.

So know I've got to wait for it to come back, make sure he didn't fool with it in any way, the relist it for a lower price because he didn't look at the picture. In the future I'd avoid selling him anything. :thumbdn:

 

[LorenzoL]

I don't know, it is true that the picture clearly shows there is some steel missing from the edge, on the other hand I don't see a major problem if the seller pays for the shipping, both ways. If he is not happy with it he should be able to return it.
Of course, it is also your right not to deal with him again.

 

[GigOne]

*** Suggestions for having a good Buying / Selling / Trading experience

1. Make sure you spell out the terms of the deal before the purchase. Don't assume anything is covered - spell it out in detail.

2. When in doubt, pick up the phone. More problems can be solved in a 3 minute phone call than all the emails you'll send back and forth.

3. Be prompt in payment & shipping. DURRRR. Nobody likes a deadbeat or slacker. If you need additional time for whatever reason, be up front about it - but don't make the other guy chase after you.

4. Be explicit in your descriptions & detailed in your photos. A 1mm scuff that's "ho hum" to you is "OMGWTF!" to some collectors.

5. IF YOU WANT AN INSPECTION PERIOD OR RIGHT TO RETURN A PRODUCT, AGREE TO IT IN ADVANCE. CYA CYA CYA CYA CYA - it will save hard feelings all around.

6. Shipping & Insurance are good investments. That $1.25 you save in postage, packaging & packing material might cost you $700 if the knife never arrives or is damaged in transit.

7. SEARCH THE FORUMS BEFORE YOU BUY / SELL / TRADE. I cannot emphasize this enough. The Good Bad & Ugly is here for a reason - use it. The time you spend on this is less expensive getting burned on a bad deal.

8. Follow up when possible. Let the other guy know when you have gotten the knife or received payment. No one likes to be kept in the dark.

9. The deal isn't done until everyone agrees. If you've agreed on an inspection period, don't spend the money until it's over.

10. Last but not least -Ethics & Common sense are not optional. We are a thriving community because our membership has high standards for their fellows. If you do screw someone on a deal (buying or selling), being banned is nothing compared to having the postal inspectors come after you for Mail Fraud. People have a long memory about bad experiences.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261779


Excellent rules to follow when selling/buying on the forums. In this case, pay particular attention to items #1, #4, #5, and #9. Look real hard at #9!

I don't see how sandbar deserves a "bad" ding. . . .for "wasting your time."

. . . .the relist it for a lower price because he didn't look at the picture.

4. Be explicit in your descriptions & detailed in your photos. A 1mm scuff that's "ho hum" to you is "OMGWTF!" to some collectors.


Relying on a single, one-side photo to justify the condition of the knife, is completely wrong. It's quite possible the verbiage you used to describe the knife. . . .well, could have been greatly improved.

"Used" condition, this knife was carried and used but was recently returned from Spyderco for sharpening and has been reconditioned to a certain extent by the company. It now is in excellent condition with only a little wear.

 

[spoonrobot]

:thumbup:

I see where you guys are coming from now. Just needed some constructive criticism to set me right. I'm working on updating my listings now to prevent these problems in the future and have got sandbar set up with a refund as soon as the knives get back.

 

[sandbar]

 

[sandbar]

AND I QUOTE

Spyderco Khukri. "Used" condition, this knife was carried and used but was recently returned from Spyderco for sharpening and has been reconditioned to a certain extent by the company. It now is in excellent condition with only a little wear. $110 $90 shipped.

Spyderco grinded down the blade this far, just to re-sharpen it? This is a little wear and excellent condition? Interesting?! I have sent these pictures to Spyderco for review and further details. I find it very hard to believe, they would return a customers knife with this much steel missing.

I could be very wrong, but the original pictures and description as noted above by user "gigone" were grossly lacking in detail and I hate to say it, but honesty.

 

[SIFU1A]

it doesnt really matter imho, if ya arent happy with a deal ya should be able to expect to return it for a refund, whatever the reason, or even no reason at all, who sharpened it/how much doesnt matter.

i agree also that no ones rep should get a ding,

FWIW in the pic in the 1st post it looks LNIB shape to me, sandbars pics do show the knife more clearly.

but, again, it all doesnt mean much, if anything, if one party isnt happy the other should do what they gotta do to make it right, in this case returning the $$ & the other party returns the knife.

 

[sandbar]

it doesnt really matter imho, if ya arent happy with a deal ya should be able to expect to return it for a refund, whatever the reason, or even no reason at all, who sharpened it/how much doesnt matter.

i agree also that no ones rep should get a ding,

FWIW in the pic in the 1st post it looks LNIB shape to me, sandbars pics do show the knife more clearly.

but, again, it all doesnt mean much, if anything, if one party isnt happy the other should do what they gotta do to make it right, in this case returning the $$ & the other party returns the knife.

In the end I must agree. The seller hopefully learned from this and will be more willing to serve the customer and properly describe the reality of the item being sold. I have to waste $5.00 of my money now, in order to send this back, so I get nothing out of it at all, but yet another possible excuse, to not make purchases on forums. This type of story also weakens, a for sale seciton of a forum, since new comers look at this as an example and then simply walk away.

It really tears me up that the seller would dare to create a thread, as if I did something wrong.

I won't rant about this again. I am sorry to the forum mods and blade forums owner for having to review this problem.

 

[Knife Crazied]

I have to waste $5.00 of my money now, in order to send this back, so I get nothing out of it at all, but yet another possible excuse, to not make purchases on forums. This type of story also weakens, a for sale seciton of a forum, since new comers look at this as an example and then simply walk away.
.

Sandbar,

With all due respect I hate to have you leave over "ONE" transaction that went south and now is "headed" back north. You will find many great sellers and rare items in the exchange section here. You also will see some GREAT prices on these items come about. Please rethink leaving due to "ONE" bad experience. I have bought, sold, and traded on here. I've had mostly great experiences. Hang around and don't let "ONE" transaction scare you from the wonderful exchange Spark has provided for everyone. I'm also sorry to read about this whole situation. I hope to see you around

Take Care, Ash

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

To me: The seller put up a pic and described what happened. The buyer did not ask for other pics or more descriptions before purchasing. Upon receiving the package it did not fit the buyers level of tolerances and wants to send it back. Seller is perturbed at this and posts on here.

To me this is 2 people having a difference of opinion and reversing a sale. No honesty needs to be questioned at all, and the buyer is out $5 for sending back something that he did not look into carefully enough in the beginning. Both people get something back from this transaction and learn something about doing business on the forum (descriptions and asking the right questions first; as well as not assuming anything!!!). All in all I do not see anything wrong with what has occurred here- this is how it works when buying second hand across long distances.

 

[sandbar]

To me: The seller put up a pic and described what happened. The buyer did not ask for other pics or more descriptions before purchasing. Upon receiving the package it did not fit the buyers level of tolerances and wants to send it back. Seller is perturbed at this and posts on here.

To me this is 2 people having a difference of opinion and reversing a sale. No honesty needs to be questioned at all, and the buyer is out $5 for sending back something that he did not look into carefully enough in the beginning. Both people get something back from this transaction and learn something about doing business on the forum (descriptions and asking the right questions first; as well as not assuming anything!!!). All in all I do not see anything wrong with what has occurred here- this is how it works when buying second hand across long distances.

Sorry, but a conclusion like this falls under, easier said, than done. I'm out money for an item described as in excellent "used" condition, not blade was ground down and had to be restored by the factory. It is missing a considerable amount of steel as seen in my pictures.

This was left out "TO ME" for obvious reasons. You couldn't sell it for $90.00 if it was properly noted and mainly because, not many would want it, when a NIB version on this very forum "right now" sells for $125.00.

I do appreciate your reply, since I firmly believe, this should be properly noted and reviewed by anyone who wishes to make purchases.

 

[sandbar]

Sandbar,

With all due respect I hate to have you leave over "ONE" transaction that went south and now is "headed" back north. You will find many great sellers and rare items in the exchange section here. You also will see some GREAT prices on these items come about. Please rethink leaving due to "ONE" bad experience. I have bought, sold, and traded on here. I've had mostly great experiences. Hang around and don't let "ONE" transaction scare you from the wonderful exchange Spark has provided for everyone. I'm also sorry to read about this whole situation. I hope to see you around

Take Care, Ash

Agreed and a valuable point, concerning market strength. I won't let this one spoil my future purchases, but I will be more careful, concerning who I choose to do business with. I have already made several purchases "on this forum" and all items were EXACTLY as described.

 

[spoonrobot]

I've learned from this. Prior to this I hadn't had a problem with the pictures I posted for sale items but I understand they may not be entirely descriptive enough for everyone. Which I am attempting to remedy with the other items I have for sale. I can't refund your shipping costs through Paypal, but I can send you the funds after the refund. I'll do so directly after I refund the original transaction.

 

[sandbar]

I've learned from this. Prior to this I hadn't had a problem with the pictures I posted for sale items but I understand they may not be entirely descriptive enough for everyone. Which I am attempting to remedy with the other items I have for sale. I can't refund your shipping costs through Paypal, but I can send you the funds after the refund. I'll do so directly after I refund the original transaction.

As you already noted, I have yet to leave you feedback, even though you didn't leave me feedback, after I paid, which is all a buyer is expected to do. I didn't give you a red dot, because I don't believe a deal is that bad unless money is lost. I was hoping you would adjust your business ethics and come to realize this blade was lacking great detail in the description of what Spyderco or whoever did to the blades edge. Anyone who views my pictures will see the exceptional reduction in the blade steel at the sharpened edge.

All said and done, I'm moving along. The two items are well on the way via 2-3 day airmail. They will arrive Thursday or earlier. I will gladly update this feedback post with the refund results and the time frame for which it is issued.

 

[frontline29]

even though you didn't leave me feedback, after I paid, which is all a buyer is expected to do

Feedback "here" is usually left after the deal is complete on both ends.
In this case I wouldn't even bother to leave feedback. Unless you guys can come to some sort of an agreement.

Sometimes it's best to just move on as if the deal never happened in the first place. As was the case with a past deal I had entered with a certain member here. Worst deal ever. But nothing was lost so no feedback at all was left.

I myself wouldn't fret to much over an edge like the one on that 90$ knife.
The knife is clearly a user, and is just gonna be used and sharpened anyways right.

Very rarely will I ever get a knife that has a great edge out of the box. Most, if not all of them, end up re-profiled and sharpened to my liking. Either before I use them, or right after those touch up's no longer do the trick.

I would have bought that 90$ knife and had been perfectly fine with it.

My point is that, you can't please every one you deal with, no matter how hard you try.

All you can do, is do your best.

 

[wolfmann601]

A knife deal is not a deal until both parties are happy.


The Buyer did what a buyer should; he asked for a refund when the knife did not meet expectations.

Now the seller just needs to refund the money and re-list with a different description or keep it the same and expect the same.........................................

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

Sorry, but a conclusion like this falls under, easier said, than done. I'm out money for an item described as in excellent "used" condition, not blade was ground down and had to be restored by the factory. It is missing a considerable amount of steel as seen in my pictures.

This was left out "TO ME" for obvious reasons. You couldn't sell it for $90.00 if it was properly noted and mainly because, not many would want it, when a NIB version on this very forum "right now" sells for $125.00.

I do appreciate your reply, since I firmly believe, this should be properly noted and reviewed by anyone who wishes to make purchases.

Actually I disagree about this being "easier said than done". You were ignorant of the other processes that you can undergo with purchasing here, and now you are more informed. You are insinuating that the seller tried to deceive you when I would have (after many transactions here) thought that he was being completely honest- his pictures were not doctored, he said that he sent it in for refinishing and was in the open about what transpired with your transaction. You are beginning to sound like a petulant child who is mad that things are not going their way (I take offense to you denigrating his business ethics in this thread). As others have said- there is nothing wrong with that knife as a user, and if I was interested in the knife I would have bought it at that price. I can see that the edge is not ground level in his original pictures, I can tell that it was used and nobody said that sending it to Spyderco for refinishing would bring it back to "specs", it was simply refinished. Spyderco cannot be expected to replace every blade that needs to have a bit of grinding to return it to a perfectly acceptable using level. You are not happy with the deal then fine- return it to OP for refund (which he agreed to with no qualms). It seems that you expected a user to be in safe queen condition, as a user I find its condition to be very agreeable, but again you did not ask for clarification first.

Feedback is usually given at the end of a transaction so that one does not leave feedback and then have an issue with the purchaser (package missing, signed for and buyer says was not received, package returned with obvious damage done by the purchaser- all of what has happened here in the past). To be honest your responses here would make me a bit cautious about performing a transaction as well, due to the fact that you misunderstand how things are expected to work here, and the seeming attitude of you are absolutely right when posters try and mention another side. Being out $5 seems to be a major issue for you, but why should the seller be expected to pay for it when he was upfront- you did not get enough information, are unhappy and are returning the item as is your choice (taking responsibility for your part in this)- the way thing are expected to go. To put it into my experiences- I purchased a knife that I thought was very rough to open, however when I looked at the sellers post nothing was mentioned about action and I never asked about it- my fault. I was trading a knife (I don't sell my collection) and traded a custom. I listed that they were users, and this one had a scratch on the blade. It was traded and later I found it for sale here, with more emphasis on the scratch in the for sale post. The individual I traded with did not ask for closeup pictures of how used the knife was, and did not complain to me when a user had a scratch (I honestly do not know if the scratch had anything to do with the re-sale or not, but I feel that it was a good transaction as both of us agreed that we were happy- if not I would have taken steps to rectify the situation). Both times were learning experiences and nobody was in the wrong.

I understand that you are newer to the forum and am willing to cut some slack due to that, but (again to me) your posts are not putting you in a good light. Hopefully this is a misunderstanding that goes under the bridge and you have a long and happy, productive time here.

I look forward to seeing your future posts in other sub-forums here.

 

[sandbar]

A knife deal is not a deal until both parties are happy.


The Buyer did what a buyer should; he asked for a refund when the knife did not meet expectations.

Now the seller just needs to refund the money and re-list with a different description or keep it the same and expect the same.........................................

Short sweet and makes sense for the conversation at hand.


This is obviously a dead issue and I believe the main and best post here was from the "gigone" who quoted spark, who knows what is reality, when it comes to selling on the forum.

 

[SIFU1A]

In the end I must agree. The seller hopefully learned from this and will be more willing to serve the customer and properly describe the reality of the item being sold. I have to waste $5.00 of my money now, in order to send this back, so I get nothing out of it at all, but yet another possible excuse, to not make purchases on forums. This type of story also weakens, a for sale seciton of a forum, since new comers look at this as an example and then simply walk away.

It really tears me up that the seller would dare to create a thread, as if I did something wrong.

I won't rant about this again. I am sorry to the forum mods and blade forums owner for having to review this problem.

the pic coulda been better, like i said in the 1st post it looked LNIB to me, so i too woulda been confused as to the condition of the knife, and it does suck to have to deal with re-shipping the item, the time involved to do that bugs me more than the $5 does, but in the end it should all be good,

FWIW when i list something for sale/swap i describe the item as close as possible and if anything give it a lesser description as far as condition goes, sure some folks might pass it up but i have yet to have complaints about the condition, folks usually say its better than expected.

and dont let one bad deal ruin anything for ya, i have done dozens with nary a problem, not a single one, this place is 100X better than most any other 'net source (ones where ya deal with other folks, not biz's)my girlfreind still cant believe all the stuff i have done, involving thousands of dollars on one deal, with no problems.

 

[sandbar]

the pic coulda been better, like i said in the 1st post it looked LNIB to me, so i too woulda been confused as to the condition of the knife, and it does suck to have to deal with re-shipping the item, the time involved to do that bugs me more than the $5 does, but in the end it should all be good,

FWIW when i list something for sale/swap i describe the item as close as possible and if anything give it a lesser description as far as condition goes, sure some folks might pass it up but i have yet to have complaints about the condition, folks usually say its better than expected.

and dont let one bad deal ruin anything for ya, i have done dozens with nary a problem, not a single one, this place is 100X better than most any other 'net source (ones where ya deal with other folks, not biz's)my girlfreind still cant believe all the stuff i have done, involving thousands of dollars on one deal, with no problems.

I really appreciate this input and it is constructive & proactive. I haven't given up nor would I have DREAMED of making a post like this about the seller. I was put at the end of the gun, so I of course replied.

Not new to the game of buying online or this forum. NOT THAT TIME MAKES ANYONE WISE, I just don't post, unless what I have to say, makes a difference or as in this case a reply.