Sandvik 13C26

M

MaxFisher

Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
923
So, I have read many different Rockwell Hardness measurements for this steel as used by Kershaw. Sometimes, on the same site, I would find different hardnesses given for this steel based on the model that was being displayed. Kershaw doesn't list the hardness on their website so I was wondering if anyone here could help me with this. I have read hardness ranges of anything from 55-57 to 58-60 based on the particular model. Could anyone provide me with a specific answer to this question?
 
Supposed to be the higher one, websites had received the old, lower numbers and there doesn't seem to have been a comprehensive move to correct it. But ThomasW has said right here that the 13C26 is now in the higher Rc range.
 
I have some knives with 13C26 blades at 58RC and some at 60-61RC and can't really tell a big difference performance wise. Now the 64.5Rc one is a different story altogether though. That is a cutter and edge keeper. I like it for the edge stability. Very good there in fact even in harder mediums that have chipped out blades with bigger carbide forming steels. I was really surprised when I used this 64.5RC 13c26 blade up against an S30V one in old used carpet. That test bumped it up in my opinion of it and what it can be made to do. In many ways this steel is a chameleon of knife steels I think. It can wear a lot of hats as a very thin hard blade, or a moderately hard thicker one and both seem to fit in nicely competing with more expensive steels.

Overall its probably my favorite stainless at this time based on my own evaluations of it on various knives using it.
STR
 
STR said:
I have some knives with 13C26 blades at 58RC and some at 60-61RC and can't really tell a big difference performance wise. Now the 64.5Rc one is a different story altogether though. That is a cutter and edge keeper. I like it for the edge stability. Very good there in fact even in harder mediums that have chipped out blades with bigger carbide forming steels. I was really surprised when I used this 64.5RC 13c26 blade up against an S30V one in old used carpet. That test bumped it up in my opinion of it and what it can be made to do. In many ways this steel is a chameleon of knife steels I think. It can wear a lot of hats as a very thin hard blade, or a moderately hard thicker one and both seem to fit in nicely competing with more expensive steels.

Overall its probably my favorite stainless at this time based on my own evaluations of it on various knives using it.
STR
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I would LOVE to have a very thin blade in the 64.5 RC 13C26. I am working with very thin blades in S30V, SGPS, and ZDP 189 right now, but considering the properties of 13C26 I would love to try it in the extreme profiles I am using, as it would seem ideal.

P.S. The blades I am using have edge thicknesses in the .005-.008" range, and angles in the 4-6 per side range, so they are very thin.

Mike
 
I would love to tell you. Lets just say I had one special made and then sent it off to Thom Brogan and he thinned it down to show me what he thought it could really do. Truth be told it could probably be thinner still but I really love it. Its one of my favorite carry knives. I would suggest finding someone that will re heat treat one for you that you can have Krein or someone grind down for you to the thinness you want. You won't be disappointed in the way it works and cuts. I have not seen any issues of brittleness but at the thinness you talk of I can't say what it would be. Mine is not quite that thin. But what Thom did made a huge difference in it performance wise in the hand with no affect on the edge keeping at all.

STR
 
db, he received it from me.

Mike we don't make blades to the edge thickness you and a few others are looking for.
In truth I don't know any volume manufacturers that do.
 
STR said:
I have some knives with 13C26 blades at 58RC and some at 60-61RC and can't really tell a big difference performance wise. Now the 64.5Rc one is a different story altogether though. That is a cutter and edge keeper.
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STR, I think those us who are interested in this steel run at high hardness with thin profile would like to hear more .... what you've said suggests that this is indeed what 13C26 is intended for. Be interested in more detail from your tests.
 
It cuts and performs well at 61RC. I just love the edge stability of this steel. The carbide size is on average 6 10ths of a micron so even if you cut something that is going to cause even the best edge to reflect a lot of light back to you like old carpet will, which I feel is about as hard a material to cut and test a knife blade with as anything; my point is that when you look down on the edge after cutting it for your test it will still not reflect back like the other steels with an average carbide size of 2-4 micron I've used. I am speaking of one that was razor sharp before cutting and didn't reflect any light at all, cutting carpet with it for a specific length and time and checking the edge for light reflection, paper slicing and under a scope to get a good idea of before and after. I think this carbide size thing is why Cliff Stamp said it can be highly polished and made to push cut well. I can concurr with that. It strops very well at any hardness. Its not the aggressive slicer S30V is but it can perform on par with it and in somethings like the carpet test it sure didn't reflect light back at you like the S30V and D2 blades I ran up the same carpet.

It is the great edge stability that makes me say this knife can wear the beater steel hat quite well. Most average non forum member joe blows out there that use their knives don't sharpen them much at all. I was always taught that the longer that apex to the edge stays true in a fairly good line reflecting little light that it will still do a lot and well. I've seen that to be the case and this steel keeps a nice straight edge for a long time even with neglect. Only on the hardest mediums have I seen even a tiny chip unlike S30V chips which were quite large by comparison.

I am currently in the process of deciding which one I want to thin down like this at the 61Rc to run it through the same tests. I just have not done that. It may turn out that the 60-61RC, which as I understand it is the ideal to shoot for in hardness for 13C26 will perform as well and be very hard if not impossible to tell a difference in.

The jury is still out on that though. I guess stay tuned but I have no real time table set on it. In fact I've got projects rolling in in record numbers here and I'm going to have to get after it on those soon which will take me away from being able to play with these jobs that are more fun.

STR
 
DOW, I'm hoping your 'interests" in this and the other Kershaw thread you posted on, are not just avenues to drudge up ugly old 13C26 arguments from the past. My feelings are that you are an honorable poster here, and I will trust your intentions are those other than to stir the "Kershaw 13C26" pot.
 
Yes please lets not go there again. That is all we need at this time around here anyway. There are plenty of $hitstorms going on elsewhere right now so we don't need one here too. :D

Thomas thanks for bailing me out with the question. Much appreciated. I wasn't going to take the liberty to fess up to where I got it.


STR
 
STR I didn't mean to put you on the spot about how you got a 64.5 RC 13C blade. If you would like a all hard 1095 blade around 65 66 rc and or a all hard M2 blade around the same hardness to compare the 13C to let me know. I will look forward to hearing more results of the 64.5 rc compared to the 61 ish blades.
 
Thomas W said:
DOW, I'm hoping your 'interests" in this and the other Kershaw thread you posted on, are not just avenues to drudge up ugly old 13C26 arguments from the past. My feelings are that you are an honorable poster here, and I will trust your intentions are those other than to stir the "Kershaw 13C26" pot.
Click to expand...

STR said:
Yes please lets not go there again. That is all we need at this time around here anyway. There are plenty of $hitstorms going on elsewhere right now so we don't need one here too. :D

Thomas thanks for bailing me out with the question. Much appreciated. I wasn't going to take the liberty to fess up to where I got it.

STR
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Hold on a minute, guys. I think it's unfair for you to jump to such a conclusion. I can understand why you might harbor these suspicions -- I thought that was one uckin' fugly thread myself -- but I think you've wrongly assumed that I belong to some "camp" that's out to stir the pot, which I'm most certainly not.

All I did in that earlier thread was indicate I was interested in purchasing one of Kershaw's knives in 13C26 and doing some comparative edge retention work. I asked you, Thomas, if you had any particular suggestions or requests if I were to do that. I was trying to respect your interests as representative for Kershaw, let you tell me what you think would be reasonable, thicker or thinner edge geometry, kinds of materials to use, etc. I thought that would be the only fair thing to do.

I wouldn't buy a knife even just to test if I didn't have some expectation of it being a decent tool that I'd want to use. Why would I want to deliberately make Kershaw or any manufacturer look bad? I'm sure I'm guilty of biases like everybody, but I try to be fair and honest to the extent I can.

Believe it or not, I come here for interesting discussions and to learn. I try to leave personalities out of it whenever possible. Unfortunately others sometimes don't allow that.

This seems like deja vu all over again. In the earlier thread you referenced, I asked a question. I never got a reply to that question, but somehow I got sucked into defending .... well, I don't exactly know what.

Thomas, I don't know how we got off on the wrong foot. I know you've found these forums to be, let's say "challenging" at times. I also remember you posting something to the effect that the forums can make you feel sort of on the defensive, and I admire a person having that kind of self-awareness (I just think you need to chill a bit, it's only an online forum of self-professed knife nuts :) ) Sure, I may be one of those who asks hard questions sometimes, even make critical remarks if that's been my experience with a product. But I also point out strong points and favorable experiences, as I think anyone who's read any of my reviews or other posts will know.

STR, I'm sorry my asking you something made you feel like you needed bailing out; I thought we were friends. It was a simple, sincere question/request which I hoped might lead to me and others learning something interesting. I guess I won't make such a grievous mistake in the future. :(

No hard feelings here, though I admit I'm disappointed that the two of you would judge me like that. IMO that's the kind of thing that encourages $hitstorms.

BTW I'd also like to "not go there again" myself, so would be glad to leave things at this stage of détente.
 
Sorry I didn't mean to come across like I was making an assumption. Its not my intent. I hated the thread too.

I didn't really feel on the spot my friend. As for testing others. I do a lot of work on knives for folks and get the chance to handle quite a few. I would love to put it side by side with a comarable sized M2 blade one day but I usually try to compare stainless to stainless of about the same size knife and all. You know knives that compete with each other.

In all honesty I liked the 64.5RC blade once I got it but I didn't love love love it until I got it back from Thom. My main question to myself is do I love it for the hardness or for the thin profile Thom did on it or a little of both? Time will tell and I will find out. My best guess? I suspect the 61Rc blade will perform on par with it at a thinner primary grind.

STR
 
Thomas W, I can understand how you wouldn't like to comment on this steel publicly again and stir up the same old stuff like in the other threads. I do still find many questions very interesting and now that there is at least one of the very hard blades in someones hands instead of just a theory is interesting to say the least. I wouldn't mind hering some more about it from someone who's used it. Even in privit email if needed.
 
STR very good points if you change your mind let me know. They are made and ground by me, hard M2 and 1095 and in no way are or could be compared to a knife made by a factory or knifemaker. Or really even to anyone that knows what they are doing but I like them. :)
 
Got my Krein reground M2 Rittergrip (.010-11") and ZDP Calypso Jr. (.017-18"), just waiting for the small JYDs to come out so i can do some modding. Still trying to decide if I want to ask Tom to grind the caly, for a >3" frn handled folder, the edge is 'thick' to me.
 
M2 is a great steel. I would love to turn one into a folder blade. Something like the lockback I did in my signiture line comes to mind.

I sharpen those M2 blades from BenchMade now and then for forum members and they get a wicked sharp biting edge on them..Almost scary really.

When I ran tests using the Kershaw Storm II I tested it against several but mainly ran it up against direct competitor knives. The Byrd Cara Cara for example. They are about the same size, both stainless, price points are similar. I look at that mainly. I see some tests where a big knife like a Para Military is compared to a U2 and it just doesn't make much sense to me to do that. :D I want to know how the JYDII compared to other similar priced models and then compared it to knives three times the cost like the Emerson Commander and CQC11. It blew the Commander and CQC11 out of the water I must say. At least regarding slicing ease and overall comfort in the hand. Not to forget it had a much better fit and finish, and a thicker stronger less troublesome lock.

STR
 
I'm jumping on a plane heading home, will try to get back to you all with some thoughts in the next day or so.

DOW, didn't want to make you feel like I was judging you, not my intentions. I did say I trusted that your motives were true.
 
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