Sandvik 13C26

[gunmike1]

db, he received it from me.

Mike we don't make blades to the edge thickness you and a few others are looking for.
In truth I don't know any volume manufacturers that do.

I wouldn't expect ANY manufacturer at all to make an edge that thin, I know that I will be paying for regrinds to get that thin, and that the knives are limited to light duty work at that profile. To the average "Joe" user they would destroy a knife quickly if you put one of those knives I have in their hand, you have to be straight and true with your cutting and use care not to twist out of cuts. I would however love to see a volume manufacturer put out a knife in that steel at that hardness as a production item, then I could do what I needed to do with the edge thickness and angle. Of course, it would be great if the edge was fairly thin and acute from the factory to start with! I think Thomas W. deserves kudos for trying out that steel so hard, it seems like it performs well there, and shows KAI definately listens to it's customers and potential customers. I look forward to STR's further work with that knife, and maybe 13C26 is one steel that can live up to some of it's hype.

harheart, I have a ZDP Caly Jr on the from Krein with the edge taken to .005" with a high hollow, thanks to Sodak fronting me the knife. Sodak is a great guy, first he lends me several high dollar pieces, then he fronts me a ZDP Caly Jr. I know what you mean about the Krein grinds, after using one everything else, including the vaunted Caly Jr., seems too thick. It is almost comical to think of the factory Caly Jr. edge as too thick, as it is considered by many to be the ultimate factory slicer, but I guess my mind is just a little warped by Krein's work!

Mike

 

[sodak]

Mike we don't make blades to the edge thickness you and a few others are looking for. In truth I don't know any volume manufacturers that do.

I can understand that, you'd probably have a return rate of 300%, most people aren't used to really precise cutting tools. If that ever changes, the line starts behind me!

 

[hardheart]

ooh. PICS NAO

 

[Thomas W]

Mike, we are doing a short run (500 pieces) of a 64.5 RC 13C26 Leek in the near future.

 

[hardheart]

GAH! *chases after fleeing wallet*

 

[BillL]

Thomas,

Can you give us some details, like approximate dates and also which particular model of the leek. Or is this what you can give us for now and will give us more info down the road.

Thanks

 

[Thomas W]

I have had a slight delay here at the airport, but wanted to say that I will give you all the Leek details, and expand on some of the earlier posts sometime on Thursday.
I would say tonight, but after a few days on the road, and with it being Valentine's Day and all.....well you know.

 

[STR]

Its only 498 because two are mine.

Should be an awesome little blade for sure.

STR

 

[sodak]

497. Get back in line!

 

[kennqc]

496!

ken

 

[db]

WOW I think my wallet just ran after Hardhearts.
As for thinness of blades I'm one who agrees most factory blades are ground too thick but it's easily fixed. I also think ground down to the thickness of a piece of paper is pretty extreme and too thinn for most. I still believe that carbide size doesn't have much of an effect even on edges that thin and hardness has more to do with it working.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Its not the aggressive slicer S30V...

Just cut back on the grit for the edge, finish at 80 AO with a 10 degree edge and see how it slices then.

I sharpen those M2 blades from BenchMade now and then for forum members and they get a wicked sharp biting edge on them..Almost scary really.

Yeah, now consider Benchmade hardens them the worse way possible for knives and they still work well. Imagine what they can do when they are hardened properly.

I wouldn't expect ANY manufacturer at all to make an edge that thin...

Lots of them do already, thinner even. I drafted up a proposal for Spyderco on this subject some time ago.

I have some knives with 13C26 blades at 58RC and some at 60-61RC and can't really tell a big difference performance wise.

Have you had them independently tested or is that just factory specs? Most production knives vary quite a bit so those could be the same hardness or the "softer" one could actually be harder.

Now the 64.5Rc one is a different story altogether though. That is a cutter and edge keeper. I like it for the edge stability. Very good there in fact even in harder mediums that have chipped out blades with bigger carbide forming steels.

Wow, that sounds really familiar, it is almost as if I heard someone say that exact very thing before.

-Cliff

 

[Thomas W]

Wow, that sounds really familiar, it is almost as if I heard someone say that exact very thing before.

Wow Cliff, in a round about way you make it sound like the 64.5Rc 13C26 Kershaw blade STR describes is pretty good.

Thank goodness we work so closely with Sandvik and our HT'r, they know their stuff pretty well. They also give great recommendations with processing 13C26, all of it based on our patterns and customer base, as well as our factory capabilities. That and they also have such tremendous perspective at taking everything we can do and can't do into account, therefore giving us the sound advice that brings forth a 13C26 blade that is fit for a Kershaw knife.

Together we make, and will continue to make, 13C26 steel decisions that are best suited for the Kershaw consumer.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Thank goodness we work so closely with Sandvik and our HT'r, they know their stuff pretty well.

Nope, that isn't where I heard it. What they said according to you was 58/60 was optimal which you advocated very strongly had to be the case obviously, because they were a steel company, you made lots of knives, lots of famous makers, everyone was happy, etc. .

I do remember someone saying that was a waste of the ability of the steel, the grind used was horrible and that if the steel was properly hardened and ground very thin that the edge stability would be very impressive and it would compete with and even outperform steels like S30V on many levels.

But anyway, the steel hardness is now sensible now and if the geometry changes to actually be suitable for that hardness you may actually have a coherent design. I seem to recall someone saying the exact geometry to use as well but again I can't place the name. But I am sure that after extensive discussions with your consultants by an amazing conicidence you will arrive at the exact same specifications.

Amazing how that all worked out.

-Cliff

 

[hardheart]

and now we get a couple specs and maybe an estimated ship date

sans the popcorn, please

 

[STR]

Well, I wouldn't quite say it is exactly as this mystery person was hoping. The final blade was not anywhere near the thinness I believe that someone was hoping for and it was still decided it was safer to only do some thinner higher hardness blades in limited runs on a higher priced knife.

I think the end result came out very sensible. Kershaw is listening, concerned and learning as they get into this steel and I gotta tell you they are doing some things right with it. The new Galyean designed Junk Yard Dog II I have is a nice performer.

I really like a lot of the new knives coming out from Kershaw. This R.J. Martin Groove is going to be a top seller, and the little base line Needs Work folder will probably be a very good mover also.

While looks alone don't mean they are going to be the best performers in the world I think Kershaw should get big applause from the end line user for each one based on the price point they will be at and the knives they will compare to and compete with in the industry. Side by side for example when you compare features, benefits, fit and finish, overall balance of the total system and user friendliness they have a good thing going competing and often beating out knives of much higher cost. After seeing both side by side I would opt for the JYDII over an Emerson Commander hands down. No question about it. Sorry Ernie. First the price of the JYDII is going to be around $55 plus or minus at most retailers. Second it out performs the Emerson in every cutting and slicing test I ran them in and third and fourth, it has a better fit and finish, and a stronger more reliable lock of .070 stainless steel. vs a .050 titanium one from EKI. EDIT: Oh yeah. And even at the bargain price of $55 plus or minus its made in the USA!

No, its clear to me that Kershaw may not be doing everything the way some would like to see, myself included but they have an open mind and their ear to the ground. They got it going on over there in Oregon my friend. They are the company to watch IMO.

STR

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... it was safer to only do some thinner higher hardness blades in limited runs on a higher priced knife.

That is too bad as it is a nice working steel. I would like to see them on a FRN line as the steel is actually cheap, not expensive, unlike ZDP or similar. I would promote them as speciality pieces, give them a unique name which makes it obvious that they are focused cutting machines. No TACTICAL association at all. Just give a clear and accurate representation of what they are and what they are made to do.

Note every tradesmen buys tools that are far more fragile than the knives mentioned in the above and they don't get upset if they break them by misuse because it is clear what they are made to do. The problems with people complaining always stem from makers/manufacturers going far too aggressive in what they can do and simply not being clear about what the knives are designed to do.

Interesting comments on the vs emerson. Never did care for that design anyway, never handled it. But was never focused on that application for knives anyway.

-Cliff

 

[Thomas W]

Golly Cliff, you make it sound like you were the only person that knows anything about Sandvik steels. It apparently has never occurred to you that Sandvik might have talked with us about a higher hardness blade? How bout our field testers? Other "knife and review tester" posters? Anyone other than yourself? Wow.
I'll break it to you now, we don't give you much thought Cliff.

I do remember someone saying that was a waste of the ability of the steel, the grind used was horrible

Now that was undoubtedly you Cliff.

the steel hardness is now sensible now and if the geometry changes to actually be suitable for that hardness you may actually have a coherent design

Thanks Cliff......I think.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Golly Cliff, you make it sound like you were the only person that knows anything about Sandvik steels.

It is way more expansive that that guy, I am the only person who knows anything about knives at all. That should be obvious, I mean I just formed a test group of several dozen users who I am supplying custom and production knives to out of my own pocket to test out fundamental properties of steels, including sandvik steels. That obviously supports your inane statement. Alongwith the fact that I for years, before there was a passround forum spent my own money to send knives around to people, send out literature I had gathered. Provided extensive references to anyone who wanted them and on a constant basis talk to actual metallurgists who specialize in knife steels - who don't shill for a company. Yup, I do all of that because I think I am the one true source of knowledge.

-Cliff

 

[pogo]

Being an average consumer, I look for a knife that holds a good edge and is relitively easy to resharpen. At that Rockwell I cannot see any knife easy to resharpen. I could be wrong. Also a lot of average people buy a knife on looks alone without even the slightest thought of the steel used.