Santa Barbara Premier Art Showcase Review

JParanee said:
You should rethink this. You can stay with me and Mr. Long:thumbup:
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I'll do that Joe, as long as you and Paul fly out to Montana for Josh Smith's show.

Don Fogg is supposed to have a few knives available...think he will have anything for Blade?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hello Steven,

Enjoyed your review to the extent that I felt like
I was there looking over your shoulder.

Thanks for that and all the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
Kohai999 said:
I think the reason that the show was not billed as a knife show is that Santa Barbara would probably have made it really hard for Steve D'lack to do the show under that umbrella...they are kind of touchy up there.
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I was wondering about that myself
I know the BIG lighted sign at the has a sign for the Historical Arms and Blade Show every year (visible from hiway 101)
We're not THAT touchy up here!!!;):mad:

I felt sorry for the 3 or 4 "artists" who had their tables set up
Looked kinda lonely
Maybe they sold some works or got good leads, who knows


I didn't see any advertisement in The Independent or the SB News Press

What is the deal with the reluctance to have the PRICES on the knives?
The Crawford I bought had the price on the "DOWN" side
i.e. If you PICK IT UP, you will see the price tag

The only reason I can think of NOT having the prices on the knife is 1st degree price discrimination
In first degree price discrimination, price varies by customer. This arises from the fact that the value of goods is subjective. A customer with low price elasticity is less deterred by a higher price than a customer with high price elasticity of demand. As long as the price elasticity (in absolute value) for a customer is less than one, it is very advantageous to increase the price: the seller gets more money for fewer goods. With an increase of the price elasticity tends to rise above one. One can show that in the optimum the price, as it varies by customer, is inversely proportional to one minus the reciprocal of the price elasticity of that customer at that price. This assumes that the consumer passively reacts to the price set by the seller, and that the seller knows the demand curve of the customer. In practice however there is a bargaining situation, which is more complex: the customer may try to influence the price, such as by pretending to like the product less than he or she really does, and by threatening not to buy it.

An alternative way to understand First Degree Price Discrimination is as follows: This type of price discrimination is primarily theoretical because it requires the seller of a good or service to know the absolute maximum price that every consumer is willing to pay. As above, it is true that consumers have different price elasticities, but the seller is not concerned with such. The seller is concerned with the maximum willingness to pay (or reservation price) of each customer. By knowing the reservation price, the seller is able to absorb the entire market surplus, thus taking all consumer surplus from the consumer and transforming it into revenues. From a social welfare perspective, first degree price discrimination is not undesirable. That is, the market is still entirely efficient and there is no deadweight loss to society. However, it is the complete opposite of a perfectly competitive market. In a perfectly competitive market, the consumers receive the bulk of surplus. In a market with first degree price discrimination, the seller(s) capture all surplus. Efficiency is unchanged but the wealth is transferred. This type of market does not much exist in reality, hence it is primarily theoretical. Examples of where this might be observed are in markets where consumers bid for tenders, though still, in this case, the practice of collusive tendering undermines efficiency.
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Dude walks up wearing a Casio watch===>The knife is 100 bucks
Dude walks up wearing a Citizen====>The knife is 150 bucks
Dude walks up wearing a gold and diamond Rolex===>400 bucks

Another reason might be to "gauge" the demand for a certain knives
The seller can tell by how many times a person expresses interest in the price of a knife??

I asked one seller if he had a web page
He said "No, I get plenty of orders just by word of mouth"
I was thinking to my self==>
Well, you could get MORE orders, increase your demand, and charge more (more profit) IF you had a web page

Even if it's one page with contact info and a picture of the dude hammering away on his anvil
Even better would be some pictures of the knives available
Even more better would be a way you could log in and check the progress of the knife you ordered


You can have a web page built for a few hundred bucks
The monthly server hosting fees might be about 30 bucks
30 bucks a month fixed costs doesn't seem like much when you think of all the publicity/possible sales leads you could get from a web page

I think it would be awesome if some of you makers had web cams in your shop!!!
How about ForgeCam.net:eek:
A bunch of makers with web cams in their shop
Anyone can look in and see if the guy is sweating over his forge.......

20 bucks seems kinda high
Solvang show was only 8
Was it 250% "better"??
Hard to say
I guess having it at Fess Parker, right along Cabrillo Blvd. makes it more attractive than Solvang
25 bucks for 3 days is a steal!!!:thumbup:
It would have been cool if I got a sticker or something with my entrance fee
A coupon would be golden

I really like when the tables have literature
Like a booklet
That way you can take it home and read it later

My favorite part of the show is the older couple who DISPLAY their miniature knives
Not trying to make money
Simply showing their collection to other knife lovers
I was kinda shocked when I asked him how much a certain knife was
"It's not for sale"
You should have seen the look of udder puzzlement on my face
"This guy paid money for a table just to show off his collection?..hmmmm"
Way cool!!!:thumbup:
He was at the Solvang show too.....
 
Trent Rock said:
I felt sorry for the 3 or 4 "artists" who had their tables set up
Looked kinda lonely
Maybe they sold some works or got good leads, who knows

I believe we will see more artist/craftsmen (other than knife makers) displaying at knife shows in the future. Larry Bailey tried it at his http://www.ohioknifeshow.com/ last year and it worked out well.

What is the deal with the reluctance to have the PRICES on the knives?
The Crawford I bought had the price on the "DOWN" side
i.e. If you PICK IT UP, you will see the price tag

The only reason I can think of NOT having the prices on the knife is 1st degree price discrimination

I doubt that was the case. I don't believe many knifemakers would use those types of tactics to sell knives. At least I don't know any that would.

I asked one seller if he had a web page
He said "No, I get plenty of orders just by word of mouth"
I was thinking to my self==>
Well, you could get MORE orders, increase your demand, and charge more (more profit) IF you had a web page.

It's surprising that some makers don't have websites in this day. I can think of one whose VERY SUCCESSFUL that doesn't have one.

My favorite part of the show is the older couple who DISPLAY their miniature knives
Not trying to make money
Simply showing their collection to other knife lovers
I was kinda shocked when I asked him how much a certain knife was
"It's not for sale"
You should have seen the look of udder puzzlement on my face
"This guy paid money for a table just to show off his collection?..hmmmm"
Way cool!!!:thumbup:
He was at the Solvang show too.....
Click to expand...

Collectors displaying their knives at shows is not that odd. There's one collector who not only pays a table fee at Blade, the Arkansas Show and probably others, he also spent thousands on beautiful furniture grade displays to display his knives it. It called giving something back to a community that has been good to you.
 
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What is the deal with the reluctance to have the PRICES on the knives?
The Crawford I bought had the price on the "DOWN" side
i.e. If you PICK IT UP, you will see the price tag

The only reason I can think of NOT having the prices on the knife is 1st degree price discrimination
Click to expand...
Like Kevin, I've never seen this.

Some makers don't feel it's necessary.
Some don't wont a sticky sticker on their knives.
Some may not want other makers to know the price.
Some just don't care.

A number of years ago my wife started making a card for each of my knives with a
photo, info and price. This has worked very well for me.
 
Wow, nicely done Steven.. I know that must have taken quite some time to put together. It was concise, and well written.. I'm not at all surprised by those makers you mentioned that had excellent sales, but I am a little bit by some of those that didn't.. Thanks again for the review.. Appreciated..
Best, Rich
 
severedthumbs said:
I know for a fact that 1st degree price discrimination occurs.
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I've done it exactly once, and seen it done....never.....so back up your "facts" or suffer some black wrath directed towards you from me like you have never seen before.:mad:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
severedthumbs said:
I know for a fact that 1st degree price discrimination occurs.
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Let's see, I've averaged 5 shows per year for 15+ years. Personally know
and have known a bunch of custom makers. Have spent a lot of time with
makers, dealers and collectors and have never even heard this talked about!

So spill the beans, man. Let's hear some names!
 
Hi STeven,

First, nice review.

Second, yes price discrimination does/did exist.

Usually practiced by dealers. Particularly in the 80's and 90's. The internet took a lot of that away...as it was too easy to now check prices and "facts" as they related to the maker and/or knife.

There is another reason that makers don't price their knives. Nothing as insidious as being discussed here.

It is merely a sales technique. The prospect stops to look at the knife; if the knife is priced (which I suggest to makers and do myself) it can pre-qualify a buyer (good thing) or intimidate a buyer (bad thing).

By not having a knife priced it allows the seller to engage in a sales conversation. The longer the sales conversation goes...the more objections to the price can be dealt with....and hopefully eliminated.

Now this works both ways as the savvy buyer can raise objections to the price...which in fact can only be assuaged by a price "negotiation" resulting in a lower price.

The flaw with the "First Degree Price Discrimination" is that the onus of superior market knowledge is placed squarely on the seller. In fact given the options available at a show with the makers of the caliber of this show. The maker clearly cannot know what the max price of what any given buyer in the room will pay. I learned a long time ago that Watches and Clothes...and even anodized titanium glasses frames mean absolutely nothing. So the Watch = Money that someone will pay for a knife has no factual basis.

Today, many of the collectors are much more versed in not only the maker...but their knives desirability in the primary market As well as the makers knives prices in the Aftermarket.

What is happening today are groups of like minded collectors buying/selling and trading among themselves. While in many cases the makers know all involved. The maker is taken out of the equation due to their inability to provide instant gratification.

Often times the maker has quoted a price and even with the knowledge of a similar knife selling for a higher price...cannot raise the price of the knife they have quoted a price on.

As well, the maker may or may not know that this was the one collector in the world that would have paid such a premium.

Example of this would be the Walker Folder and the Lake "Bid Up" knife at the show. Both sold for more money shortly after being purchased by one particular buyer at the show.

In one case the price was set by the maker and the other case the price was set by the market. In both cases additional "elasticity" existed with regards to the money that each maker received for the knife.

Clearly both makers felt sufficiently compensated for their work. As well they continued to leave some "elasticity" in the Aftermarket for their work.

This not to say that prices don't "fluctuate" between potential customers...it does all the time.

Take the price on Friday at noon when the show opens and the price on Sunday at noon for instance. :D
 
A seller not having a listed or even a particular price in mind is not necessarily price discrimination. He may prefer to negotiate a sales price with a potential buyer and there's nothing wrong with that. Actually it's an equatable solution for determining value of an object at a particular time.
A seller may prefer a negotiated price to a listed price if he/she wants to insure everything in inventory is sold.
 
Great review STeven, the best I've seen anywhere in a while! :)

Guys, as to the recent thread drift, maybe some of those thoughts and topics would fit better in another or new thread? ;)
 
No one ever complains about not being able to see the prices on jewelry, you have to ask to see the piece to find out the price.

Works the same with knives. I put a sticky with the price under the knife so when the customer picks it up they can see it. I also have a list that I make before each show so I can keep track of sales and have a price backup so show that I'm not just pulling numbers out of the air.

I wonder if this show is any kind of indicator of what sales will be like at the blade show?
 
Hi Chuck,

Jewelry pricing is a bad example to use. Everyone knows that the "list" price is never...ever what you pay.

So that doesn't work the same for knives.

Once makers give a "discount" or "negotiate" the price. The buyer will expect the same consideration in the future. Then that buyer will spread the word..don't pay Chuck full retail.

Then when the buyer decides to sell your knife he will list it at what he payed or maybe even a little less (for a quick sale). Now your knife is out there at the "negotiated" price.

You think the economy has a bad affect on your knife sales.

What works easiest is to price the knife...and that's the price. Chuck if you have to have a "back up" price...you didn't price you knife correctly to begin with.
 
Les,
What I meant when I said I had a backup price list is a list of all the knives I have available and their prices. This way if the sticker falls off the pad, off of the knife or is hard to read I can show the customer that I have the same price on my list and that I'm not just pulling the price out of the air and not price discriminating.
 
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