Santa Fe Stoneworks

After reading this post, I immediately called Santa Fe Stoneworks to sort things out and I'm happy with the way things were resolved. Bill, who I believe is the poster above, explained that it was the fault of UPS and not of Santa Fe Stoneworks for shipping 3 days and not 2, and they will refund the shipping charge to me as soon as I give them my credit card number, which they don't see if you order online. He also told me that because of the way their system works, having the order number doesn't help them

He mentions that he wishes that I had called him before posting because he's gotten a lot of flak for this (I guess that's you guys ;)), but again, I didn't have the name of who I was talking to the first time. I regret putting the issue of the shipping on the shoulders of Santa Fe since it was the fault of UPS, but all viewers here have already read how things played out from my perspective, and the confusing information I received (didn't say order number doesn't help, didn't say that the name of the shipping address mattered, etc.) from this receptionist certainly blew the situation out of proportion. I wish I had heard then what I did today.

So, in sum:
1. I am satisfied with the way the situation was resolved between me and SFSW.
2. The quality of their products is top-notch.
3. Perhaps internet ordering is not the ideal way to order from them, as it makes it so that they don't have access to your credit card number to check things?
4. As Anthony Lombardo said, if anything goes wrong, the person to ask for Bill Wirtel.
 
TW, this was my gut feeling as well. I am glad to see the above posts (by both of you) corrected and acknowledged. You handled this appropriately at this point.

As always, there are usually two sides to any story. (Make that three, and include UPS--a reknowned disappointer.)

The internet is powerful. It can work both ways. Let's hope this swings the pendulum back in favor of SFSW for all.

Coop
 
Bill (of SFSW) sent me an email in reply to mine. It appears they really care about both their reputation and their customers' satisfaction. If I'm looking for something fancy, they will be on my list.
all da best,
rats...
 
SharpByCoop said:
TW, this was my gut feeling as well. I am glad to see the above posts (by both of you) corrected and acknowledged. You handled this appropriately at this point.

As always, there are usually two sides to any story. (Make that three, and include UPS--a reknowned disappointer.)

The internet is powerful. It can work both ways. Let's hope this swings the pendulum back in favor of SFSW for all.

Coop
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Something to be learned, I think, is the importance of that front-line customer service personnel.


If I read it right, the original poster was told there was NO record of the order and no such order has come through there --- period! (i.e. please re-order or go away).


UPS not withstanding, I think this "miscommunication" was the true cause of exasperation and why it ended up being discussed here.
 
The rapid response of the owner of SFSW both to the complaint and to this thread show the value of good communication and good customer service, in direct contrast to what happened with the original complaint. One valuable lesson to be learned is that, when these difficulties happen with customer service, the best strategy is to ask to speak to a superior in the company. This works especially well with smaller companies (such as SFSW) and is another good reason for doing business with them.
 
Glad that it came out okay ThreeWorlds, and that you are happy with how SFSW has responded to the situation.
 
Good deal. Glad to see this get sorted out. SFSW goes back into the "good guys" column, it seems. :)
 
JCaswell said:
Something to be learned, I think, is the importance of that front-line customer service personnel.

If I read it right, the original poster was told there was NO record of the order and no such order has come through there --- period! (i.e. please re-order or go away).

UPS not withstanding, I think this "miscommunication" was the true cause of exasperation and why it ended up being discussed here.
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I don't agree with you- BTW..in your first post, you accuse SFSW of "pulling that stuff"-- they, evidently did not "pull" anything.

Rather there was an honest miscommunication resulting from the fact that the buyer did not mention to the receptionist staff that this was a third party ship and thereby the system was not showing their order.

A simple mistake exacerbated by a new rookie staffer.

I also think that this was not the place to have discussed this- not so fast anyway. In my opinion, the GBU on Bladeforums should be a last resort to clobber anyone including a knife supplier like SFSW.

I found it wrong for ThreeWorlds to have started this bashing thread, along with a red thumbs down, before the whole story was out and before the package was even late yet.

In the end, the package was delivered in time for the trip, and no harm done, and still ThreeWorlds wanted the shipping back- Bill Wirtel (Anthony is right, again) stepped up and will refund your money- And I doubt very much that he will ever get a refund from UPS.

Look how this was starting to become a gangbang- from tonydahose;
as of now 411 knife enthusiasts have been reading about your crappy customer service. i suggest you deal with it and very quickly before more people read about it and also decide to not buy from your site. here is the thread.
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well, tonydahose, it was not "crappy customer service"- just a few issues- like new staff, no mention of the third party ship to etc and another typical screwup by UPS- right?

From Peregrin;
Thanks for the heads up on the lousy service. I remember the bad experiences of others. It helps me avoid adding to my own.
Funny how word of mouth (or Internet) can have a really negative effect on a business.
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Yes, Peregrin- the internet can have a negative effect- and that means places like BF where over anxious and impatient folks like ThreeWorlds resort to such overkill measures when this was not warranted and, in the end, the result was casting crap on a company (they are all very nice people, btw) and accusing them of all this for nothing.

In all, it worked out well for ThreeWorlds- but I believe that she/he owes SFSW an apology for this over-impulsive and attacking thread.

But, in the end, ThreeWorlds got "free shipping"- so that must make her/him very happy indeed. You really wanted this badly- right?

From ThreeWorlds:
I plan on calling SFSW on Monday and asking them why what they did happened, and requesting a refund on my UPS 2 Day Air. If it hadn't gotten here before I left I would have followed up on the suggestions here and asked for a full refund for the huge amount of trouble it would have caused, but since the product has now safely reached me I can't really do that in good conscience.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and support. I will update this thread after I talk to SFSW and try to get this last part worked out with them.
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Have a nice day,

Neil Ostroff
 
Have to have some respect here for SFSW for coming onto BF to explain what happened and to make things right with Threeworlds regarding the shipping.

I'll admit I jumped the gun before getting the full story. SFSW has shown me that they're a class act, and though I've never ordered from them before, I'll be browsing their store in the near future.

And Neil makes some darn good points. Coming here to the GB&U really should be reserved as a last resort. All in all, it's good to hear things were worked out :thumbup:
 
Neil,

I did not intend to 'accuse' SFSW. "That stuff" refers to the apparent indifference and curtness from a company representative as described by the original poster, and I presumed her account was accurate.
Was her account inaccurate? Did she not, for whatever reason, receive poor customer service at first?
Her main gripe seemed to be about what she experienced over the phone, which is similar to what I got from that supplier I mentioned in my post, which is the only reason I mentioned it.

I was not inferring that SFSW was shady or cheating anyone (if that's how you took it, I'm sorry) just as I didn't imply that my crummy supplier was cheating me (My material finally arrived today--2 weeks later, BTW). They (my crummy supplier) were just indifferent concerning the cost of their mistake and unwilling to fix it before the damage was done.
It looks like I wouldn't have had such trouble with SFSW!


Ultimately it's been fixed, and that's great!

(I got curious and visited their site ... some nice stuff on there. The dinosaur bone isn't the prettiest thing they offer, but it's hard to beat it for cool!)
 
Neil Ostroff,

This was not about the free shipping at all. It was about the principle of paying for 2 day shipping when it arrived on the 3rd day; contrary to your statement, it was late already. Yes, no harm done, but it did cause me a good deal of stress at the time. You can believe that or not as you like.

I do not expect Bill Wirtel to refund me the shipping out of his own pocket. If I had been aware from the beginning that it was a UPS problem, I would have asked for the same sort of refund from them.

Not time to post it? I thought the GB&U was a feedback forum for all our experiences. When was I supposed to post my experiences, when everything had gone to hell and I had possibly damaged a relationship? Of course hindsight is 20/20 and everything has worked out fine, thankfully. All I have to say is, it's easy to criticize someone for being over-anxious and impatient from the outside.

I have tried to be fair in the course of this entire incident. In my original post, I related what had happened as it appeared to me from my perspective. Naturally, I was angry at the time, due to the contradictory information I received, and that comes through in my post. Nevertheless, I did not make sweeping statements about the operations of their company. I have praised the quality of their products throughout. In fact, it seems that other BF members here approve of the way SFSW has handled things, and many will be looking more closely at their outfit in the future.

Given the fact that I have been as truthful as humanly possible in my discussion of events here, and only apply to the situation the sort of standards that I have come to expect from dealing here at BF (and I know others expect from from me as well), I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm trying to cheat SFSW out of a few bucks.
 
ThreeWorlds said:
Neil Ostroff,

This was not about the free shipping at all. It was about the principle of paying for 2 day shipping when it arrived on the 3rd day; contrary to your statement, it was late already. Yes, no harm done, but it did cause me a good deal of stress at the time. You can believe that or not as you like.

I do not expect Bill Wirtel to refund me the shipping out of his own pocket. If I had been aware from the beginning that it was a UPS problem, I would have asked for the same sort of refund from them.

Not time to post it? I thought the GB&U was a feedback forum for all our experiences. When was I supposed to post my experiences, when everything had gone to hell and I had possibly damaged a relationship? Of course hindsight is 20/20 and everything has worked out fine, thankfully. All I have to say is, it's easy to criticize someone for being over-anxious and impatient from the outside.

I have tried to be fair in the course of this entire incident. In my original post, I related what had happened as it appeared to me from my perspective. Naturally, I was angry at the time, due to the contradictory information I received, and that comes through in my post. Nevertheless, I did not make sweeping statements about the operations of their company. I have praised the quality of their products throughout. In fact, it seems that other BF members here approve of the way SFSW has handled things, and many will be looking more closely at their outfit in the future.

Given the fact that I have been as truthful as humanly possible in my discussion of events here, and only apply to the situation the sort of standards that I have come to expect from dealing here at BF (and I know others expect from from me as well), I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm trying to cheat SFSW out of a few bucks.
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First- I do think you are trying to clip SFSW for a few bucks- that's my opinion based on your post where you make a point of this twice;
I plan on calling SFSW on Monday and asking them why what they did happened, and requesting a refund on my UPS 2 Day Air. If it hadn't gotten here before I left I would have followed up on the suggestions here and asked for a full refund for the huge amount of trouble it would have caused, but since the product has now safely reached me I can't really do that in good conscience.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and support. I will update this thread after I talk to SFSW and try to get this last part worked out with them.
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However, judging from your attitude here, it seems to me that it may be just more for the sake of you getting your way and not really the money. Anyway, congratulations- you are going to get your way.

I think you were way out of line and jumped the gun big time with your first post- look back and see how angry you were- you were clenching your fist??

The internet forums are a powerful medium- they should be used wisely and not for ones personal entertainment or a place to vent out frustrations or attack for the sake of the personal reward of jumping all over a company who, in the end, was not guilty.

As you said, it was all a matter of the 2 day vs the 3 day and not the supposed rude staff (as Mr Caswell thought) - she was probably scared to death by your attitude on the phone- do you blame her?

OK, so I am done here- you will be happy to know that you are going to get the last word.

Neil Ostroff
 
Just out of curiosity, and in spite of the fact that the product was ultimately delivered, when one opays for 2nd day air and doesn't get it, isn't a person entitled to that refund? That service costs twice what third day does, and it was not done.

I've had the same problem. UPS will pay the claim, but I, nor the OP paid UPS, we paid the vendor. The vendor has the responsibility, IMO, to make it right and collect from UPS. I've had to do that. And the fine tracking system UPS has shows exactly who paid for what service and whether that service was provided.

If a vendor screws up and doesn't get the product out, the customer can only take issue with the vendor. That's who was paid for the sertvice. If UPS screwed up, the customer stil dealt only with the vendor. They have no standing to make a claim from UPS, since they didn't directly pay.

I've been burned both ways on this, and not by SFSW. Currently USPS lost an insured package for me. I have to refund the customer even though I can't file a claim for another week. I wish they had the UPS tracking system, instead of the Black Hole Tracking System.

Gene
 
he internet forums are a powerful medium- they should be used wisely
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True, and it also means firms can no longer hide behind poor customer service. It also means that everyone in in customer facing job needs to be competent, professional and trained.
 
I forwarded the initial post's IRL to SFSW and informed them that they may want to address it as there are many avid knifefans who check this forum.

Kudos to SFSW for addressing the problem quickly. I've dealt with them several times in the past and received excellent service and quality products. I will surely do business with them again.
 
Neil Ostroff said:
Look how this was starting to become a gangbang- from tonydahose;


well, tonydahose, it was not "crappy customer service"- just a few issues- like new staff, no mention of the third party ship to etc and another typical screwup by UPS- right?



Neil Ostroff
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there are two sides to every story and up until SFSW replied all we heard was one of them. now i realize sfsw is a small company and they probably had a techie do their site since i am guessing most of their staff is building us knives (yes i have a few of their works in my collection). so the first snafu was that they couldn't see their online orders ( i am guessing that will be resolved soon) the second was the rookie employee, i am sure 3worlds was under duress because of the deadline and to have someone say we have no record of your order would put anyone, yes even you Neil in not the best frame of mind. so what do you do. you have tried to contact the vendor and you arent getting anywhere. (yes he should have asked for a manager but anybody can be a monday morning QB) so who do you vent to? the same guys,and gals that you BS about knives with probably every day on here. if his flight hadnt been delayed and he hadn't gotten his knife in time do you think this would have been resolved just as quickly? i think not. i bet sfsw would have made him a new one and shipped it out pronto and when 3worlds got home he could have shipped the original back so sfsw could sell it again. now i am speculating on this because sfsw wants their reputation to stay in the good guys side and i think they would have gone that extra mile to make the customer happy. in the end the great :( UPS was to blame, but that is with the vendor to resolve and he should get a refund for the shipping difference. i wrote my original post from the facts that i had and i have no qualms about what i wrote. "the crappy customer service" was a result of a technical glitch and a new person not having enough experience yet. SH@T happens in the real world and if you have ever been in customer service you have to deal with it and alot of the times it isn't you or your company's fault but you do what you have to to make the customer happy. like it was said already kudos to sfsw for addressing this even though the shipping problem wasn't theirs to begin with.
 
ThreeWorlds said:
Jackasses. I just checked my credit card account; they charged my credit card yesterday.

Just tried to call them back but I've spent too much time being angry -- they're closed for the day.
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I do call this unjustified, jumping the gun, over reacting. And the only thing Threeworlds has said is that she is now satisfied. There has never been an apology for this type of slander.
Anna Wirtel
 
Horizon_Seeker said:
you wouldn't happen to be biased toward SFSW at all, would you now?
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This is obvious, HS, thanks for showing up to class.

Ms. Wirtel, welcome to BladeForums.

Allow me, on behalf of those who actually have a clue, value BladeForums, and appreciate the fine, fine work that SFSW offers to the cutlery community to apologize for the unfair and improper way that you were treated by ThreeWorlds.

With the internet, you don't always get a fair shake, and you don't always get treated right....but....I think that you would agree that there are many positive outcomes with the use of this tool, and it does increase communication.

Those that have read this thread have witnessed your top quality business be defended by the best in the community, and have seen the OP put down a bit. Hopefully the rest of these jokers learned something positive. There is some justice there.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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