Satin Jack & BATAC

bluka94

bluka94

Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
150
I need a knife for military purpose and situations that may occur within service.
My requirements:
Ok, the knife I need does NOT have to be maid of stainless steel. I more appreciate if they are not brittle. I would like a thicker blade with little weight in it...Out there in the field you will not play with food trying to slice it so it looks beautiful, but cut it in pieces that you can put in the mouth.
Good penetration ability through clothing, skin, muscles and ribs without fear of breaking the blade. Good cutting ability through skin, muscles and possible thin clothing and wires. It will keep the edge good and without chipping. Absolut NO serrations along the edge. Serrations on the top can I live with, but not a must. Good grip on the handle, don't want it to rotate in the hand or to slip with my hand along the edge when pushing the blade through something.
I always think of screwdriver...it's much easier to handle one with thicker handle.
Do these knives fulfull my requirements?


My appologies if I have been too straightforward when describing what the knife might be used for...You never know what kind of situation you may get in and I want to be able to rely on my knife.

Thanks,
//bluka94
 
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Of these two, the Satin Jack. The recently released "Embrace the Suck" version is still available for a small mark-up over the new price. I traded for a second one, it's a great "all around" knife.

I have two BATACs and while I like them, I find I wish their blade was longer. Of course then, I have a Satin Jack.

.
 
Sounds like personal defense is high on the list of priorities. In this approximate size I would try for the recently released JackHammer (SJ sized) or the Hellrazor. They will probably be available in the upcoming Ganza.

Regarding the SJTAC and the BATAC, they would both work well for your stated usage.
 
They both have the TAC grip but IMO the SJ would be better for your stated mission.
 
David E said:
Of these two, the Satin Jack. The recently released "Embrace the Suck" version is still available for a small mark-up over the new price. I traded for a second one, it's a great "all around" knife.

I have two BATACs and while I like them, I find I wish their blade was longer. Of course then, I have a Satin Jack.

.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know...ETS are here on forums to sale, I saw it...
Is there no risk of breaking the blade while penetrating (i.e. impact+ribs) considering thickness of 0.187"? I know that Busse has lifetime warranty, but what use is that when you stand there with broken blade in your hand...:(

I don't know if it's possible for 0.187" thick INFI to break, that's why I keep asking questions...I know all of you LOVE Busse's knives:thumbup:
 
I think there's very little risk of the blade breaking like that. Does someone have a link to some of the pics of the AK47 testing? The blade is bent an insane amount and not only doesn't break, but comes back to "true".

The only problem with the Satin Jack is that the handles are very thin and the Badgers have the option of magnum handles (not sure about the ETS SJs).
 
A Busse...........breaking on mere RIBS ?

ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the funniest thing I've ever, ever heard !

:D :D :D
 
RM579 said:
The only problem with the Satin Jack is that the handles are very thin and the Badgers have the option of magnum handles (not sure about the ETS SJs).
Click to expand...

The ETS has magnum scales, which make ALL the difference !

.
 
I vote for either the SJTAC or the new JH. They have more pokie tips that fill the role of a fighter better than a BATAC.
 
I second the general feeling. Satin JAck Tac with Magnum scales. ETS is a great knife
 
Hi, guys!

The first thing I noticed while reading your answers was that nobopdy was freaking out because of my requirements, like: "You maniac, what the hel are you intending to do with the knife?" and things like that.
On a swedish forum I would get lynched long time ago for that:D
Thanks for taking my needs seriously.:thumbup:

These are my "candidates" that I'm considering:

Fällkniven A1 - Laminated VG10 - 0.24" (our swedish knife)
Bravo-1 - A2 Tool steel - 0.215"
RC-6 - 1095 Carbon Steel - 0.188"
Buck/Simonich Raven Legacy - S30V - ¼” full tang at the handle and then tapers down to an 1/8” at the tip.
Zero Tolerance Model 0100 - CPM3V - 0.190"
K9 Dingo - CPM3V - 0.25"
Fehrman Last Chance - CPM3V - 0.25"
Fehrman Cold Fury - CPM3V - 0.25"
Satin Jack - INFI - 0.187" (at least most of them)
BATAC - INFI - ? (but thicker than SJ)

Like VoxHog said, self-deffence is prio. Chopping and digging I'll do by axe and spade (thanks God those exist:D). I'll use my knife as a knife should be used, specially a qualitee blade like Busse.:thumbup:

@Dave E. - There you've got something to pull up at parties.:D:D:D (among Busse fans only):thumbup:

EDIT. That JackHammer...I would like to take a look at it. But, however, the blade I look for should be 6" at max...
 
SJTac, BATac, Jack Hammer, Mini EU-17, STripper, NOe, ASH-1, take your pick. They will all take more abuse than you can dish out (unless you clamp it in a vise and start hammering it).
 
Bluka...I should have suggested the HellRazor to begin with. The next Ganzaa should have competition finish Hell Razors AND Jack Hammers...both great options for you, and they should be relatively affordable. If you need to know what a Ganza is, search for PaddlingMan's profile and click the link in his signature. Should be one coming very soon.
 
bluka94 said:
Is there no risk of breaking the blade while penetrating (i.e. impact+ribs) considering thickness of 0.187"?
Click to expand...

In a word, no.

See here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281054&highlight=rescue

A few nights ago, Jennifer and I were returning from Toledo (The Big City) down State Route 20. It was about 10:00pm and pitch dark. About 200 yds. in front of us a pretty bad accident occurred. A semi-truck full of grain had pulled out of one of the fields and was going about 10 mph when the Chrysler mini-van in front of us (going a bit over 70 mph.) slammed into the the rear of the truck. We were able to react quickly enough that we avoided becoming part of the accident and were able to offer some assistance to the injured man in the mini-van. Long story short, the front of the van was completely crushed, airbags were deployed, the guy was NOT wearing a seat belt and had crushed the steering wheel flat against the dashboard in spite of the airbags. Jennifer called 911 and stood in the middle of the highway with a large flashlight trying to stop three oncoming trucks form slamming into the now dark and impossible to see mini-van. I ran to the crushed up mini-van to check on the driver. The front quarter panel had collapsed into, and over the door making entry impossible.

INFI to the rescue!!!! I had a Satin Jack with me and was able chop and pry the crushed body panel back and then pry the van door open far enough to talk with the victim and assess the situation. By the time the paramedics arrived they had easy access to the victim. The victim was in pretty bad shape and had suffered massive internal injuries. He was ultimately life-flighted to Toledo. I have no idea whether he survived the accident or not. I tried calling the hospital but was unable to get any info on his condition due to the fact that I am not a family member.
Click to expand...
 
Hi, again! :)

The blade I look for should be 6" at max....I hope that Jack Hammer has similar blade length to SJ.

And thanx for the tip-off, I'll check it out...:thumbup:
 
I would recommend the SJTAC over the BATAC. The Jack as a tip that is better suited for stabbing and slashing type work. It is in the 6 inch range and fits the max size you mentioned. I would not worry about it breaking. A blade at .187in thick I would think would be better suited to your needs anyways.
The Jacks can be found with mag handles. I picked up one at the Eugene knife show back in April that has mags. It is just a matter of looking around.
 
bluka94 said:
Hi, again! :)

The blade I look for should be 6" at max....I hope that Jack Hammer has similar blade length to SJ.

And thanx for the tip-off, I'll check it out...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

The Jackhammer is a Satin Jack varient that has a drop point. Same length.
 
I was looking at your considerations and had some thoughts:
First of all, having that One knife to do all major chores with first led me to suggest a Fusion steel heart of some sort, but after reading that you want it for mainly a combat knife, and want to leave the chopping chores to hatchets ( may I suggest the Gerber Fiskars one, it's incredible) I began to think about penetration and firm hand grip. Of the Busse line, the new jack hammer looks like it would take care of all combat jobs that you could have; sharp point for good penetration and the blood grooves to help pulling out of Hajji's Gut without too much suction. I haven't held one yet, but I'm hoping they are around .2 in thickness. a Hellrazor woudl not be bad either. the hellrazor has good weight and a decent point, but not as pointy as the Jackhammer. You might want to pick up some campwrap from Brigade quartermaster to wrap your grip with, it's perfect grip, doesn't come off easy, but if you want it to, it doesn't leave any residue. comes in a variety of ACU or marpat depending on your camo. also good for cammo on your weapon.
Some other knives are the Fehrman first Stike. it feels great in the hand and will fit into a spec ops 8" sheath without any modifications and has the perfect tension. I noticed you have the 5.5" Last chance up there. great knife. it will also fit the spec ops small sheath perfectly. both are incredible knives. go to brigade Quartermaster to get the sheaths. Use your military discount and save $$.
If you are scrapping for cash. Cold steel recon Scout and the Timberline Zambezi, are ok, but you can't go wrong with a Busse or Fehrman.
Your blade is one of your most important purchases for any field use. dont' forget to pick up a good sharpener.
May God be with you
 
fbusmc said:
blood grooves to help pulling out of Hajji's Gut without too much suction.
Click to expand...


Basically, this theory postulates that the blood groove is present to facilitate withdrawing the knife from a person/animal. In this scenario, it is said that the animal's muscles contract around the knife blade, and that this causes a vacuum, which makes the knife difficult to withdraw. But on a knife with a blood groove, blood runs through the blood groove and breaks the suction, so the knife can be withdrawn with less difficulty.

One problem is that there's no evidence that this suction ever really happens. Also, over and over again people report that there is no difference whatsoever in the difficulty of withdrawing a knife with a blood groove vs. one without. This is one theory that has been tested and found wanting.

Yes, I realize you may have heard this myth from your deadly knife instructor, or read it in a book somewhere. But the experts agree that it is false. If your knife can cut its way in, it can just as easily cut its way out, with or without a blood groove.

And with that, I am going to change terminology from "blood groove" to "fuller", since we all now know the so-called "blood groove" is not playing a blood-channeling function.

Okay, so what substantive role does the blood groove/fuller play? The bottom line is, it does two things:

1. It stiffens the blade 2. It lightens the blade

That first statment has been the subject of some controversy, with some people sending me equations purporting to show that the removal of material cannot make the blade stiffer. I will table for now the question of "does the blade get stiffer, in some absolute sense, due to the fuller?" Rather, I'll weaken the claim to say that the blade *feels* stiffer to the user who is waving it around -- because it's stiffer for its weight.

I'll reproduce a post by Jim Hrisoulas which lays things out clearly (re-printed with permission):

When you fuller a blade you do several things:

1: You lighten it by using less material, as the act of forging in the fuller actually widens the blade, so you use less material than you would if you forged an unfullered blade. (In stock removal the blade would also be lighter, as you would be removing the material instead of leaving it there).

2: You stiffen the blade. In an unfullered blade, you only have a "single" center spine. This is especially true in terms of the flattened diamond cross section common to most unfullered double- edged blades. This cross section would be rather "whippy" on a blade that is close to three feet long. Fullering produces two "spines" on the blade, one on each side of the fuller where the edge bevels come in contact with the fuller. This stiffens the blade, and the difference between a non-fullered blade and a fullered one is quite remarkable.

Fullers on knives do the same thing, although on a smaller blade the effects are not as easily seen or felt. Actually looking at fullers from an engineering point of view they really are a sophisticated forging technique, and it was the fullered swordblade that pointed the way to modern "I" beam construction.

When combined with proper distal tapers, proper heat treating and tempering, a fullered blade will, without a doubt, be anywhere from 20% to 35% lighter than a non-fullered blade without any sacrifice of strength or blade integrity.

Fullers were not "blood grooves" or there to "break the suction" or for some other grisly purpose. They served a very important structural function. That's all. I have spent the last 27 years studying this and I can prove it beyond any doubt

taken from: http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/knife_encyclopedia/articles/blood_groove.html
 
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