Sayoc Winkler hawk vs IIIA kevlar vest

[scouter27]

I doubt it would help. Your typical serrations only really work in a slicing motion. The ones pictured in your post look more like spikes to me, increasing the PSI in in impact, allowing it to penetrate the armor. With plate and mail armor as soon as you penetrate any point the immediate surrounding armor is compromised and becomes much easier to crush or cut.

That doesn't mean someone shouldn't try it. If nothing else it would look badass

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The reason why I think it might help is that in combat your opponent is typically in motion. On a static target the points would aid in penetration due to reduced surface area at the onset of the blow, but on a mobile, soft, yielding target might help in tearing through fabrics rather than glancing off of the target.

 

[imua]

Thanks Edwood 7, that is what I was looking for. I will go for the smaller size for concealment.


Cheers

 

[Lapp_Dance]

Edwood7, just so you know, I blame you personally for this anguishing wait I am experiencing while my RnD Hawk is being made. Mr. Winkler is very pleasant in his emails, and I am very much anticipating the "few weeks" I was quoted.

 

[Edwood7]

Edwood7, just so you know, I blame you personally for this anguishing wait I am experiencing while my RnD Hawk is being made. Mr. Winkler is very pleasant in his emails, and I am very much anticipating the "few weeks" I was quoted.

[youtube]C716AGbpETM[/youtube]


Mr. Winkler puts a lot of work in to each and every axe and knife that he puts out, here Is a short video tour of his shop.
I’m in Juarez today, and I’m carrying two a his blades.
It’s worth the wait.

 

[Operator1975]

I would go with the old western/cowboy movie protection then as seen in the old clint eastwood movies with the metal plate under the clothes. I would really be the only thing that is going to stop someone with a hawk like that.

 

[foxx]

Edwood7, just so you know, I blame you personally for this anguishing wait I am experiencing while my RnD Hawk is being made. Mr. Winkler is very pleasant in his emails, and I am very much anticipating the "few weeks" I was quoted.

I know how you feel. I can thank Edwood for my wanting one in the first place, and now blame him for my anticipation. Our Rnd's might be "siblings", as I am also on the list. I went with black micarta and a black KG coat.:thumbup:

Are you going with the belt-loops or the molle adapter or both?

 

[Edwood7]

Y use the belt loops to attach it to the side of my plate carrier, y just pair them with a couple of Grim lock D rings from Maxpedition. I will post a few pictures of it.

 

[Lapp_Dance]

I know how you feel. I can thank Edwood for my wanting one in the first place, and now blame him for my anticipation. Our Rnd's might be "siblings", as I am also on the list. I went with black micarta and a black KG coat.:thumbup:

Are you going with the belt-loops or the molle adapter or both?

I opted for the micarta as well with a standard carrier, no front spike and caswell finish. Today is week 1 since I placed the order. It's interesting that Mr. Winkler is able to quote shorter times as a one-man shop than a competitor who is able to die stamp/cut their hawks at a higher rate.

 

[foxx]

I ordered mine on 10/26, and was told 4-8 weeks, so it's good to hear he told you less time. Maybe I'll see mine sooner than later?

I went with the spiked front, it just looks like it would cause so much damage from a slash. I see these as pure weapons, not something I'm gonna take camping. In time I'd love to get another hawk or axe, I love the look of the combat axe, but the campers axe seems more like something I'd get to use more often. Then again that Jenny Wren looks like a great backpacker's hatchet/hawk/weapon/tool. Come on lotto, too many hawks and not enough cash!

 

[Lapp_Dance]

I ordered mine on 10/26, and was told 4-8 weeks, so it's good to hear he told you less time. Maybe I'll see mine sooner than later?

I went with the spiked front, it just looks like it would cause so much damage from a slash. I see these as pure weapons, not something I'm gonna take camping. In time I'd love to get another hawk or axe, I love the look of the combat axe, but the campers axe seems more like something I'd get to use more often. Then again that Jenny Wren looks like a great backpacker's hatchet/hawk/weapon/tool. Come on lotto, too many hawks and not enough cash!

Dan didn't give me an exact time frame, he only stated "a few weeks." I agree though, lots of nice hawks on the market, not enough cash.

 

[Bob45]

This isnt a comment on Mr Winklers hawks, but Ive got a Winkler Knives II belt knife I have had for several months, and it is becoming my do everything knife, its sharp, comfortable in the hand, the sheath is great, it holds its edge well and is easy to touch up if needed. If you get a chance to check one out, do it. Its a great knife

 

[Edwood7]

This isnt a comment on Mr Winklers hawks, but Ive got a Winkler Knives II belt knife I have had for several months, and it is becoming my do everything knife, its sharp, comfortable in the hand, the sheath is great, it holds its edge well and is easy to touch up if needed. If you get a chance to check one out, do it. Its a great knife

Thats what i carry ! Best fixed blade i have ever had.

 

[broe]

This is something that LEOs hate to have posted. No one ever wants it let out that the vests have limitations. An ice pick is the Police officer's worst enemy as nothing can stop it but layers of magazines or the plate in the carrier (let alone a .22 from any rifle!). I have tested my hawks on kevlar helmets and they cannot sustain a spike hit to them anywhere on the helmet. Anyone that has one and would like me to make a video of that I would be glad to make one and put it up here.

 

[scouter27]

This is something that LEOs hate to have posted. No one ever wants it let out that the vests have limitations. An ice pick is the Police officer's worst enemy as nothing can stop it but layers of magazines or the plate in the carrier (let alone a .22 from any rifle!). I have tested my hawks on kevlar helmets and they cannot sustain a spike hit to them anywhere on the helmet. Anyone that has one and would like me to make a video of that I would be glad to make one and put it up here.

Orly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1KGFonmZzQ
[video=youtube;J1KGFonmZzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1KGFonmZzQ[/video]

http://bulletproofvestusa.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=4


Everything from NIJ level I and up will stop a 22lr LRN round. It has to to get the rating.


Got any other "info" you'd like to share?

 

[CMK11]

Lot's of dangerous misinformation in this thread. Google DocGKR to get get boned up on the subject. m4carbine.net has a sub forum dedicated to this stuff but you can find a lot his work with a simple google search. Good luck.

 

[scouter27]

Lot's of dangerous misinformation in this thread. Google DocGKR to get get boned up on the subject. m4carbine.net has a sub forum dedicated to this stuff but you can find a lot his work with a simple google search. Good luck.

1: IIRC, DocGKR primarily deals with terminal performance of firearms, not the performance of edged weapons on ballistic vests. That's the primary focus of this thread.

2: what misinformation are you talking about?

3: Why not share a little bit of the information you seem to have, rather than just tell everyone to "google" it. I did, by the way, and the first page is mostly people asking which round to carry for defense. Not very helpful given the subject at hand though.

 

[CMK11]

1: IIRC, DocGKR primarily deals with terminal performance of firearms, not the performance of edged weapons on ballistic vests. That's the primary focus of this thread.

2: what misinformation are you talking about?

3: Why not share a little bit of the information you seem to have, rather than just tell everyone to "google" it. I did, by the way, and the first page is mostly people asking which round to carry for defense. Not very helpful given the subject at hand though.

1: He's covered both but you're right, his primary focus is firearms.

2: Read #3

3: Because I'm far from an expert and instead of contacting Doc personally and asking to repost his work here or trying to put it in my own words, googling it is the far better alternative. Furthermore, he's put out so much information that trying to pick through what to post would be foolish on my part.

Didn't mean to insult anyone but this forum provides information I accept at face value a lot of times because of the caliber of people providing it. This was an area I thought I could help maintain that unique quality by pointing out some of the information provided here is counter to what qualified professionals have put out in the public domain.

 

[scouter27]

Didn't mean to insult anyone but this forum provides information I accept at face value a lot of times because of the caliber of people providing it. This was an area I thought I could help maintain that unique quality by pointing out some of the information provided here is counter to what qualified professionals have put out in the public domain.

I mean no disrespect as well, but your posts here are somewhat vague as to what you have issue with. I am not a subject matter expert either, but I could easily post at least a sentence or two and a link (which I did, in my post above your first) about what I had a problem with.


Simply; what is it that you have a problem with?

 

[CMK11]

I mean no disrespect as well, but your posts here are somewhat vague as to what you have issue with. I am not a subject matter expert either, but I could easily post at least a sentence or two and a link (which I did, in my post above your first) about what I had a problem with.


Simply; what is it that you have a problem with?

For one, the 22LR comment. Also, you can't count results empirical from testing done on a sample size of 1 in any instance, not to mention testing a product in a way it wasn't designed to perform. Although the result may be exactly as the OP stated regarding testing the vest against a ballistic medium, those vests are designed specifically to perform against bodies. Shooting a hanging vest will yield different results than against a ballistic medium. As I stated, the findings would almost assuredly align with the assertion of better penetration, the test was severely flawed from the word go.

I wore these things for a living for a while, as I'm sure many others on here have, and am still learning new things. If I've misunderstood something in this thread, my apologies.