Sayoc Winkler hawk vs IIIA kevlar vest

Edwood7 said:
Thats what i carry ! Best fixed blade i have ever had.

winkler-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Ed, is that the belt knife or the longer field knife?
I seem to naturally gravitate to longer bladed knives, but the shorter belt knife looks to be a perfect size.
 
I too am the last to fall victim to Edwood7's Winkler axes pictures:grumpy::p

I have the size & style of the RnD Hawk I want but I am curious, did anyone use a different steel than what Mr. Winkler suggests and uses as his standard steel (5160)? I remember Mr. Winkler answering in an older thread that he could do S7 but naturally there were some thread offs.

What did you guys opt for? And if there are any micarta handle RnD out there, please post 'em:thumbup::D

Again, great looking axes Ed and thanks for you input
 
Mr. Winkler told me this in an email.

"Thank you for your order. The RnD Hawks are all made in 5160 steel. Since they are primarily made for combat I use the grade that has a little better edge holding. There is still plenty of shock resistance for breeching. I am probably going to change from S7 to H13 for my breeching and crash axes. I have some test pieces in process that will determine if I change or not. To get a RnD Hawk made from this material would delay your order several months and personally I don’t think the change in material for this design would be warranted. The cost difference is negligible. Frequently people think because 5160 is not one of the new glamorous steels it is lacking in today’s market. I have tested several steels including 5160, A2, S7, D2, cpm154, cpm3v, 52-100 and soon H13. For axes by far the 5160 has proven to be the best except when regularly cutting metal, concrete and cinder blocks. In those cases trading off edge holding for shock resistance is acceptable."

So I went with the 5160, and here's a pic I stole from the Internet, somewhere. I'm getting the same on mine, black micarta with black KG guncoat...
micartawinkler-1.jpg
 
CMK11 said:
For one, the 22LR comment. Also, you can't count results empirical from testing done on a sample size of 1 in any instance, not to mention testing a product in a way it wasn't designed to perform. Although the result may be exactly as the OP stated regarding testing the vest against a ballistic medium, those vests are designed specifically to perform against bodies. Shooting a hanging vest will yield different results than against a ballistic medium. As I stated, the findings would almost assuredly align with the assertion of better penetration, the test was severely flawed from the word go.

I wore these things for a living for a while, as I'm sure many others on here have, and am still learning new things. If I've misunderstood something in this thread, my apologies.
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This thread is not about shooting ballistic vests. I think that's where the problem lies. We talking about hawking vests. The video test vest was only penetrated by a little bit while hanging. If it had a person in it, the penetration would have likely been greater. That's all that I saw the OP state in this thread. Did I miss something?
 
scouter27 said:
This thread is not about shooting ballistic vests. I think that's where the problem lies. We talking about hawking vests. The video test vest was only penetrated by a little bit while hanging. If it had a person in it, the penetration would have likely been greater. That's all that I saw the OP state in this thread. Did I miss something?
Click to expand...

Yes, I explained it. It might seem like semantics to some but it's not. No big deal though. Moving on. BTW, my wife was born in Clarion. :thumbup:
 
foxx said:
Mr. Winkler told me this in an email.

"Thank you for your order. The RnD Hawks are all made in 5160 steel. Since they are primarily made for combat I use the grade that has a little better edge holding. There is still plenty of shock resistance for breeching. I am probably going to change from S7 to H13 for my breeching and crash axes. I have some test pieces in process that will determine if I change or not. To get a RnD Hawk made from this material would delay your order several months and personally I don’t think the change in material for this design would be warranted. The cost difference is negligible. Frequently people think because 5160 is not one of the new glamorous steels it is lacking in today’s market. I have tested several steels including 5160, A2, S7, D2, cpm154, cpm3v, 52-100 and soon H13. For axes by far the 5160 has proven to be the best except when regularly cutting metal, concrete and cinder blocks. In those cases trading off edge holding for shock resistance is acceptable."

So I went with the 5160, and here's a pic I stole from the Internet, somewhere. I'm getting the same on mine, black micarta with black KG guncoat...
micartawinkler-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Great info there, thanks foxx! That's the first up close pic of a micarta handle as well.
Becasue of micarta's near indestructibility that will likely be what I order, minus the front spike
 
foxx said:
Mr. Winkler told me this in an email.

"Thank you for your order. The RnD Hawks are all made in 5160 steel. Since they are primarily made for combat I use the grade that has a little better edge holding. There is still plenty of shock resistance for breeching. I am probably going to change from S7 to H13 for my breeching and crash axes. I have some test pieces in process that will determine if I change or not. To get a RnD Hawk made from this material would delay your order several months and personally I don’t think the change in material for this design would be warranted. The cost difference is negligible. Frequently people think because 5160 is not one of the new glamorous steels it is lacking in today’s market. I have tested several steels including 5160, A2, S7, D2, cpm154, cpm3v, 52-100 and soon H13. For axes by far the 5160 has proven to be the best except when regularly cutting metal, concrete and cinder blocks. In those cases trading off edge holding for shock resistance is acceptable."
So I went with the 5160, and here's a pic I stole from the Internet, somewhere. I'm getting the same on mine, black micarta with black KG guncoat...
micartawinkler-1.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm in the list for H13 crash axe. I've tried S7 and H13 will be refreshing.L6 is next.
 
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