Scandi blade question

[s12.aaxtell]

hey j williams I really like that scandi knife you have there. where did you happen to get that?

 

[j williams]

Its from Mark Wohlwend. Its a sweet blade. Mark is a helluva good maker, and very reasonably priced. He is easy to work with too as far as if you wanted to tweak the design a bit. (fatter handle, shorter blade, etc....)

heres his Email.

mpwohlwend@sbcglobal.net

Drop him a line!

 

[Brian Andrews]

I was going to order one from Brian Andrews but he is out of the game for a while.

I am not fully "out." I am just relaxing my pace and ordering style and hoping that folks will understand my reasoning for doing it. If you want something, shoot me an email, or give me a call. I will put you down on my list and I will contact you before I actually make to make sure you still want it. No biggie ifyou change your mind. Just much more informal than before.

B

 

[j williams]

Brian....Before I write off Scandis permanantly, I really want to try out one of yours. Look for me to be in touch. With absolutely no rush.

 

[Brian Andrews]

I agree, but I also think you can compensate a bit for a thicker blade by making the grind higher.

That is not entirely true. Let me explain.

Generally, you pick the grind angle based on the performance you want the knife to have. The higher the angle number, the less sharp the knife will be, but more durable it will be. The opposite is the thinner than angle, the sharper, but less durable (think exact-o blade).

That is your consideration. Now, if you grind at that same angle on two knives of different thicknesses, the grind will come out higher on the thicker knife. You can't change the laws of geometry, and it just works out that way.

Now, take those same two knives, different thicknesses, ground at the same angle. They will have the exact same performance in the intial part of the grind.

Assuming that your cutting material is still contacting the blade surface, once you reach the depth of cut height of the grind on the thinner knife, all of a sudden there will be nothing more to contact, and it will slice through easier. On the thicker knife, it will be still contacting metal for a period of time. That is why they say the thicker scandi's do not slice as well.

If your cutting is generally through something very thin (like a piece of string, or thin rope), you will not even know the difference between the two. It comes into play when the cutting material stays in contact with the blade.

You can not simply narrow the edge on the thicker knife, else you get yourself into a whole different tool, as the cutting edge angle would have a different purpose (more delicate).

I hope I explained that well Makes sense in my head.....at least that is what the voices tell me

B

 

[hollowdweller]

If I had to pick the my top 3 01's full tang scandis they would be

The Skookum Bush Tool
My 01 Koster Bushcraft


Both of those 2 have really clean grinds and seeming to me they hold their edge a bit longer than my other 01's.

Although I don't own an 01 by him I've used one and Brian Andrews I'd rate up there with those 2 too.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

If I had to pick the my top 3 01's full tang scandis they would be

The Skookum Bush Tool
My 01 Koster Bushcraft


Both of those 2 have really clean grinds and seeming to me they hold their edge a bit longer than my other 01's.

Although I don't own an 01 by him I've used one and Brian Andrews I'd rate up there with those 2 too.

O1 is 'the' scandi carbon steel to use, in my opinion. None of the other steels that use a scandi grind have had equal performance. D2 and 3V take about six years to sharpen (just not for me) or to put an edge on, and this A2 is chipping and rolling like a mother. I've not had that problem with O1, no matter who made the knife (meaning no matter how 'thin' the blade is).

 

[kgd]

However, I'm not one of these pilgrims who gets anal retentive about the edge of a blade. I really don't give a rat's tail about scholarly discourses about a "scandi" grind. It's just a freakin' knife.

Even being an 'academic' used to scholarly discourses, this post by Coldwood resonates with me.

To be totally honest, I have found that most internet claims about sharpness and performance enhancements of one technique or another to be mostly hyperbole. This is only something I've come to experience after I got my butt off the computer chair and started meeting makers and users and playing with their knives. I can't say I've experienced everything out there, but I can now say I've handled a lot of knives.

I like a scandi grind but find it somewhat limited in where its advantages come to play. In my own little experience, but it is based on real trials, the scandi grind excels at its ability to plane along wood and bite just the right amount of wood. In this, I mean it slides gracefully along that flattened large bevel and this naturally aligns the blade during a cut. This is a wonderful and great feature and for me is what makes the scandi so efficient at wood cutting.

However, all the talk about micro-bevel or not and zero grind has almost no bearing on the attribute of what I like about a scandi, being the point above. A micro-bevel will increase the angle of the edge at the cutting surface which arguably makes it slightly less sharp. However, it is a supremely easy method of removing a burr which is hard to actually do effectively by sharpening along the whole flats in the fashion of a true zero grind. Whether you do one or another is, again in my experience, trivial to the application of sharpness in a using situation and bears little effect on the ability to use the knife to plane wood in effective slices.

While I used to follow the scandi-grind debates often, I again am finding myself in line with Coldwood. There is so much debate about triviality, or citing definitions about scandi grind developed by a knife distributor or a maker here. Its all pretty ridiculous and kind of off-putting.

 

[hollowdweller]

That is not entirely true. Let me explain.

Generally, you pick the grind angle based on the performance you want the knife to have. The higher the angle number, the less sharp the knife will be, but more durable it will be. The opposite is the thinner than angle, the sharper, but less durable (think exact-o blade).

That is your consideration. Now, if you grind at that same angle on two knives of different thicknesses, the grind will come out higher on the thicker knife. You can't change the laws of geometry, and it just works out that way.

Now, take those same two knives, different thicknesses, ground at the same angle. They will have the exact same performance in the intial part of the grind.

Assuming that your cutting material is still contacting the blade surface, once you reach the depth of cut height of the grind on the thinner knife, all of a sudden there will be nothing more to contact, and it will slice through easier. On the thicker knife, it will be still contacting metal for a period of time. That is why they say the thicker scandi's do not slice as well.

If your cutting is generally through something very thin (like a piece of string, or thin rope), you will not even know the difference between the two. It comes into play when the cutting material stays in contact with the blade.

You can not simply narrow the edge on the thicker knife, else you get yourself into a whole different tool, as the cutting edge angle would have a different purpose (more delicate).

I hope I explained that well Makes sense in my head.....at least that is what the voices tell me

B

Great explanation.

 

[hollowdweller]

O1 is 'the' scandi carbon steel to use, in my opinion. None of the other steels that use a scandi grind have had equal performance. D2 and 3V take about six years to sharpen (just not for me) or to put an edge on, and this A2 is chipping and rolling like a mother. I've not had that problem with O1, no matter who made the knife (meaning no matter how 'thin' the blade is).

Not sure. Seems a lot of Scandi Scandis are 1095 right?? I've never owned a 1095 scandi so maybe that's a really good one too.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

1095 is still a winner, I think I've used a couple. It's just that O1 'does it for me'. Maybe it's a superficial fondness for the slow, even patina...

 

[Rotte]

... this A2 is chipping and rolling like a mother. I've not had that problem with O1, no matter who made the knife ....

I like O-1, a lot, but A-2 is good stuff as well and has the reputation of being a tougher steel--if perhaps a bit more difficult to sharpen. If you've got an A-2 blade that is chipping out, I'd be wiling to bet it had a bad heat treatment. Or the edge geometry is really bad. Or you should stop trying to carve chessmen from garden rocks.

Nevertheless, I'm with you and love me some O-1.

 

[dbltap45acp]

Brian Andrews, I sent you a PM.

The Skookum web site states that A2 will roll or chip easier then 01 as well. I have never experienced this, but thats what was stated.

I now have an e mail or PM into all of the great makers to ask about having my next one built. Since they are all awsome makers I guess it will come down to aesthetics. I like A2,01, and CPM3V, but I think my next will be in 01 as well. I do like that steel.

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Post expired.

 

[theonew]

I hope I explained that well Makes sense in my head.....at least that is what the voices tell me

B

Makes perfect sense to me That's why I said you can compensate a bit, but yeah thinner cuts better :thumbup:

 

[ZombaiO]

I thiink that Jukka Hankala makes the best scandis !
His Tommi knives are awsome !!!

 

[shotgunner11]

I fell onto the bandwagon a few weeks ago using one of TexasTony's Koster bushcrafters.

Never a fan of scandis before that one but it just worked so well for so many things and was a nice, handy size.

Now I find myself scouring the exchange for one.

 

[m. wohlwend]

hey j williams I really like that scandi knife you have there. where did you happen to get that?

That would be one I made, I promise I will have a few available before long... as soon as I figure out the wiring on the motor and the variable drive it came with ... It's been too long since I messed with this type of wiring, so it's off to the local electric motor shop monday.

As soon as it is rolling I will be able to grind some. I have a forge and heat treat oven for heat treats now so I might try some in A2 if there is an interest.

 

[Varg Lobos]

Bryan Breeden makes a scandi knife. I was asking him about one awhile back and he sent me a pic of his scandi knife.

Maybe he'll pop in here and talk more about it.

 

[cuphead]

very debatable indeed, for me I own a variety of scandis all more expensive then the next, and I was thinking last week-end which were my favorite ones from the gang and the 2 that made the list were the Mora 510 and 10cm wood carver from ragweedforge which siguy also owns.
both knives together cost less then 50$.