Scandi grind but *Edit* Shoulder getting scratched

[BJ587]

Hi all,

I'm new to sharpening knives and there may be the problem, however I have followed instructions from multiple sites on how to sharpen a scandi and with a small diamond sharpener with both coarse and light sides it is scratching the shoulder.

Now every tuition that I watch says put knife flat on sharpener or stone etc and tilt the bevel and you find the sharpening angle, easy. I can do this.

However it seems inevitable that the shoulder will scratch too with this because it's still in contact with the diamond sharpener at that angle.

Has anyone got any advice? I know it might be I need a higher angle etc but I swear I'm following the videos and like I say it's ''easy' to tilt the bevel to get the right angle, apparently. I even tried just one concerted swipe down the diamond sharpener with no movement and the shoulder still gets scratched.

Any ideas?

EDIT: picture: https://imgur.com/a/x0s5Aak

Thanks.

 

[Shotgun]

I’m not sure what tutorial you’re reading but you should be sharpening the bevel. Tilting it slightly might be good to remove a burr or to increase the edge strength, if needed, but to sharpen a scandi you lay the bevel flat on the stone. No tilt. This means you will be “scratching” the bevel because that is what you’re sharpening.

 

[BJ587]

I should say the knife gets sharp, enough to cut paper easily and some hairs on arm but not crazy.

 

[shinyedges]

Of course the bevel will be scratched... You should be laying one side of the V on the stone and scratching it it while it sharpens and then flipping it over and scratching the other side.

I'll never understand the issue with scratches on a knife intended to be used

 

[BJ587]

I’m not sure what tutorial you’re reading but you should be sharpening the bevel. Tilting it slightly might be good to remove a burr or to increase the edge strength, if needed, but to sharpen a scandi you lay the bevel flat on the stone. No tilt. This means you will be “scratching” the bevel because that is what you’re sharpening.

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology....

Here is a picture, sorry all knife fans.
https://imgur.com/a/wcDekt1

 

[BJ587]

Thanks for your quick replies guys.

It's not that I mind it getting scratched as it's going to get used, it's whether I'm doing something wrong.

I've highlighted where it is getting scratched which im not sure is normal when I'm keeping the angle. Here is same pic with me highlighting what I mean:

https://imgur.com/a/x0s5Aak

 

[mpm0097]

To me it looks like you are rocking the blade while you sharpen instead of keeping it flat. It is definitely not as easy to keep it flat as it sounds. Most freehand sharpening ends up as a convex edge. To me, that is what you are doing is putting a convex edge on it but being that the scandi grind is flat you are only hitting the edges of the grind.
All that being said, I'm just and amateur and it's just my humble opinion

 

[BJ587]

To me it looks like you are rocking the blade while you sharpen instead of keeping it flat. It is definitely not as easy to keep it flat as it sounds. Most freehand sharpening ends up as a convex edge. To me, that is what you are doing is putting a convex edge on it but being that the scandi grind is flat you are only hitting the edges of the grind.
All that being said, I'm just and amateur and it's just my humble opinion

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I think I am doing that too, it's a tiny diamond sharper and I'm a total novice.

It's more the red part I've circled on here and whether that is meant to be getting scratched...I think maybe my terminology was wrong as I'm not sure the name of the highlighted piece of the knife but I don't see how it can't get scratched on a scandi grind if you are using this to find the angle...unless you lift it slightly above but all guides just say put the knife on the sharpener or stone etc and tilt etc (Ray Mears sharpening video on YouTube etc, numerous other vids etc)

https://imgur.com/a/x0s5Aak

 

[midnight flyer]

I’m not sure what tutorial you’re reading but you should be sharpening the bevel. Tilting it slightly might be good to remove a burr or to increase the edge strength, if needed, but to sharpen a scandi you lay the bevel flat on the stone. No tilt. This means you will be “scratching” the bevel because that is what you’re sharpening.

This makes perfect sense after looking at your picture. A Scandi grind is made to be ground flat and sharpened flat along it's bevel. What you are doing is putting a secondary bevel along the edge.

For a working knife, to me it looks like you are doing just fine. But if you are in the collector /jewelry group that keeps their knives looking pristine and brand new, buy a guided system (even a cheap one will work) and you can keep away from everything but the very cutting edge itself when sharpening.

Robert

 

[Alberta Ed]

My Scandi grind by Ivan Campos in 1070 is easily the sharpest knife I own. The bevels will show "scratches" because that's how you sharpen a Scandi grind, flat on the hone.

 

[BJ587]

Guys, thanks for being so helpful. Didn't expect this many responses so soon so thanks so much.

So to confirm, is the red circled area in the photo (what is this called btw?) going to get scratched on a scandi grind?

https://imgur.com/a/x0s5Aak

It's just in the Ray Mears video (yes I know he is a serious expert) I saw no scratching here, and am sure that's technique but I don't see how it can be avoided because you lay it flat and tilt using this bit (shoulder?) and so whatever the red circled bit on the knife is called, is always in contact with the sharpener or stone on a scandi, right?

 

[BJ587]

This makes perfect sense after looking at your picture. A Scandi grind is made to be ground flat and sharpened flat along it's bevel. What you are doing is putting a secondary bevel along the edge.

For a working knife, to me it looks like you are doing just fine. But if you are in the collector /jewelry group that keeps their knives looking pristine and brand new, buy a guided system (even a cheap one will work) and you can keep away from everything but the very cutting edge itself when sharpening.

Robert

Hi Robert,

I bolded the part of your message-thats exactly the bit which concerns me. But as this bit is in contact on a scandi when sharpening by the guides, by hand (which is what I will be doing) I don't see a way around it unless I increase the angle which I seemingly shouldnt be doing because it's easy to find on a scandi

 

[marchone]

Get a better sharpening system. I’ve been using a Lansky Pro with 4 diamond and 1 ceramic. Angles are solid. It was about $50.

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

B BJ587
It looks to me like your scandi grind is slightly hollow. It was possibly ground in with a wheel, leaving it concave. So, what happens is you are grinding the edge, and the shoulder, and not in between, because your stones are flat. This will continue until the whole bevel is flat. It shouldn't be a problem, but if you don't like the way it looks, keep grinding until the whole bevel looks the same.

 

[BJ587]

Get a better sharpening system. I’ve been using a Lansky Pro with 4 diamond and 1 ceramic. Angles are solid. It was about $50.

Some whetstones are on the list, and I have no doubt this will be much much easier for control. The diamond sharpener is probably only 2cm wide.

But like I say I'm still not sure if this 'secondary bevel' as Rob says, which is a good description, is inevitable because even when static, from the side with the knife tilted at the 'correct' angle, it's still in contact.

https://imgur.com/a/x0s5Aak

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

You're not getting a secondary bevel. Look at my previous post again. If the scandi bebel is being held flat on the stones, you're sharpening correctly, and will eventually flatten the bevel.

 

[hexenjager]

B BJ587
It looks to me like your scandi grind is slightly hollow. It was possibly ground in with a wheel, leaving it concave. So, what happens is you are grinding the edge, and the shoulder, and not in between, because your stones are flat. This will continue until the whole bevel is flat. It shouldn't be a problem, but if you don't like the way it looks, keep grinding until the whole bevel looks the same.

Exactly this. I've seen it in a couple of my own scandi grinds.

 

[BJ587]

B BJ587
It looks to me like your scandi grind is slightly hollow. It was possibly ground in with a wheel, leaving it concave. So, what happens is you are grinding the edge, and the shoulder, and not in between, because your stones are flat. This will continue until the whole bevel is flat. It shouldn't be a problem, but if you don't like the way it looks, keep grinding until the whole bevel looks the same.

That's exactly what it 'feels' like, incidentally. It's a karesuando so I'm not sure on the ground on a wheel.

Does this happen often on scandi knives? I'm a total, total begginer so technique will be some of it, but when like I said in my last message when it's static but at the ''correct' angle, fingertips near the knife edge, the 'shoulder' or whatever it's called outlined in red, is still touching. Don't see a way around it unless I raise the angle. I'm just learning and it's great to have everyone's input.

Thanks

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

That's exactly what it 'feels' like, incidentally. It's a karesuando so I'm not sure on the ground on a wheel.

Does this happen often on scandi knives? I'm a total, total begginer so technique will be some of it, but when like I said in my last message when it's static but at the ''correct' angle, fingertips near the knife edge, the 'shoulder' or whatever it's called outlined in red, is still touching. Don't see a way around it unless I raise the angle. I'm just learning and it's great to have everyone's input.

Thanks

It's quite common. They probably used a large diameter wheel, to make it as flat as possible. Making it perfectly flat is more difficult and slow, so most companies don't do it, but it's not a problem.
By the way, the area you circled is known as the shoulder. It's where the bevel meets the flat of the blade.

 

[BJ587]

It's quite common. They probably used a large diameter wheel, to make it as flat as possible. Making it perfectly flat is more difficult and slow, so most companies don't do it, but it's not a problem.
By the way, the area you circled is known as the shoulder. It's where the bevel meets the flat of the blade.

Ah okay, thanks Kbrasmodeler.

I have learnt something new, that's good to know.

If the bevel was perfectly flat, I'm presuming the shoulder wouldn't come into contact on a scandi grind? And thus wouldnt have this situation. Or will it always come into contact somewhat due to scandi sharpening method etc (and thus get scratched a little)?