Scandi , I guess I just don't get it .

It is true - the 4mm or 5mm conventional bushcrafter with a lowish scandi grind is thicker and quite unlike most of the scandinavian knives that it draws inspiration from. It is a pretty unwieldy thing, better described as "something that you might find a use for in the woods" rather than a knife.
 
Honestly Ken, i think this whole "scandi/bushcraft" thing is a fad the way that nessmuks were. I still prefer a full flat grind or a gentle full convex grind. All of my scandi knives have a primary grind that is waaaaay too thick to be useful, along with a thin stock. No thanks. They don't work well on wood or in the kitchen, I relegate most of them to garden duty.
 
BINGO! Not that I'm experienced in thse types of knives because I'm not, but that crossed my mind when I read one of the earlier posts that questioned how you make a better Buschcraft type knife than the cheaper, value brands and the one thing that crossed my mind was "put more rigidity into the knife and more inertia behind the spine". It seems to me the more efficient direct transfer of energy from the user via a stiff, thick blade, with good steel and a good HT will translate into better cutting (vs. slicing) performance except when fileting a fish . . .
Except increasing the grind angle and the thickness of the blade reduces the amount of cutting you can do for a given amount of force. The more obtuse the angle, the more force perpendicular to the bevel face opposes your cutting .
 
IANA knife maker but i suspect regrinding a scandi to full v is a lot easier than starting with a bar stock. the edge is delineated so it's easier to maintain symmetty. :D
 
Mora is on it's way and a friend brought over his Foster bushcraft knife CPM 3V today for me to kick the tires on . So I feel like I am pretty good to go.Next week I will be better informed and will have given at least the Foster a good workout . I'll make a couple dead falls set a snare whittle a couple tent stakes shave some kindling for a fire and grow a beard for authenticity .

I already played a bit with the Foster and am pretty impressed . Cuts clean,shaves and skives well . Nice control while shaping a 2x4 into a mess of shavings. Tested it against my old hunting knife and although the differences weren't dramatic I will say the Foster shaves off thin lengthwise shavings better than my hunter. But my hunter kicked it's ass in depth of cut . Maybe the Mora will prove different . I think it would make a dandy field knife for carving up wood and such . Might have to whittle a sling shot or something with it .

I'm thinking I need to make two identical knives , one with a scandi and one with a full flat with a convex edge .Both with no secondary bevel to get better test data.
 
I didn't mean it as a compliment.:D
BINGO! Not that I'm experienced in thse types of knives because I'm not, but that crossed my mind when I read one of the earlier posts that questioned how you make a better Buschcraft type knife than the cheaper, value brands and the one thing that crossed my mind was "put more rigidity into the knife and more inertia behind the spine". It seems to me the more efficient direct transfer of energy from the user via a stiff, thick blade, with good steel and a good HT will translate into better cutting (vs. slicing) performance except when fileting a fish . . .
 
Part of the thing about thick stock and a relatively low grind is that, when splitting wood (I am talking about the bushcrafter here) is that the shoulders of the grind help by doing the splitting, thus, to an extent, preserving the edge.

Like I say though, the bushcrafter isn't a knife; at least it isn't a knife with meat preparation very high up its list of priorities. It's more like a handled tool with a sharp edge as one of its features.

I find that, despite myself, I like Moras

By the way - look at the scandi folders being made in the UK (by David Hull) and the new Birk offerings from Enzo/Brisa (Finland)
 
Understood - thanks!

Except increasing the grind angle and the thickness of the blade reduces the amount of cutting you can do for a given amount of force. The more obtuse the angle, the more force perpendicular to the bevel face opposes your cutting .
 
Yup! That's why I prefer to add mass directly behind the cutting edge rather than to the sides. Make the blade wider instead of thicker and you'll see a greater increase in performance per unit of material added.
 
I have always been pretty handy at working a stone in the field . don't see the advantage of scandi there. I realize I am coming late to the scandi party . Thats mostly because I have not been even slightly interested in them however they seem to have gotten a bunch of momentum in the last few years . Just wondering what I'm missing .

Hank , Yup those are the ones I'm talking about.

I feel the same way overall and I doubt that will change, just give me a nice thin flat grind and I am good. :)

You really aren't missing anything other than the latest fad or whatever they want to call it....

And I know how to sharpen a knife so that isn't a problem either.
 
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I don't quite get the scandi grind either. Ive only used one and it bites extremely deep into wood when you make push cuts but other than that I don't see any advantages.

As Tom Krein once said, FFG is where its at.
 
I don't quite get the scandi grind either. Ive only used one and it bites extremely deep into wood when you make push cuts but other than that I don't see any advantages.

As Tom Krein once said, FFG is where its at.

I don't quite get the scandi grind either. Ive only used one and it bites extremely deep into wood when you make push cuts but other than that I don't see any advantages.

As Tom Krein once said, FFG is where its at.

I'm not singling out your post, just using it as a convenient hook to respond to the "don't get it" crowd.

I think to properly appreciate what is short handed as the "Scandi grind" you need to look away from the UK centered interpretations of knives from Scandinavia and actually look at the historical forms as the people there used them to understand them.

One factor was that it was difficult to obtain high quality steel for much of history in that part of the world. The knives that were made had to be material efficient. The knife had to be an excellent cutting tool first and foremost. Splitting wood, chopping through a joint or pelvis of an animal was the realm of another tool, perhaps an axe, which could make up for a lack of quality metallurgy with mass.

Next, take anything more than basic food prep out of the equation as stylistically slicing onions or other fine kitchen work is not what a knife like a puukko is about. However, the edge approaching zero degrees will zip open an animal and the wedging/scraping action of the grind can make it an effective skinner with practice. These same attributes make such knives excellent draw cutters as well as pretty decent at scraping hides in aid of preservation.

In my view, such knives evolved in a world where you make your own tools, axe handles, eating implements, furniture, traps, whatever, from wood, bark, antler, and bone and you do it multiple times over the course of your life. In addition to carving, puukkos are pretty decent for drilling holes through material in the field because they have an acute but well supported point.

These knives were tasked in an unforgiving environment where things are frozen hard a good fraction of the year and where a broken field knife could easily cost one his life, and in any event his knife is neither cheap nor easy to replace. This last point historically accounts for the high retention sheaths associated with these knives.

The traditional belt knives of the area excel foremost at the woodworking because that was the demand to meet. Making firewood, processing fish, butchering animals, all of these were secondary concerns or lower. The Scandinavian knives are not efficient slicers or great for filleting, but they offer great woodworking control, bite rather than skip off of hard woods or frozen materials and to my way of thinking represent a still valid compromise between utility, toughness, liveliness in the hand, and weight, one that works for a lot of people.
 
^
good one. and to that, i will point out how the single side chisel grind (right side) is the logical style for the tropics. ease of sharpening (even easier than a scandi) and lots of soft material to brush away like grass and lianas. just lightly backhand them out of your way (if you're righthanded) and you have a clear path through the jungle. for those who've tried hacking through jungle for one day, you will know how taxing it is. a really sharp brushing knife than can cut within a short arc with little effort is important. chopping an upright piece of wood is a cinch if you hit it at 45 degrees from the right side. when building a jungle house, the right-side chisel grind is bad for splitting wood but it's a great hand plane and chisel (just hold it at the handle with one hand and the back of the blade with the other.)
 
I don't know the technicalities of it, but I have never had any problem cutting things with a scandi ground knife - wood or otherwise.

I have used a Mora #277 in the past as my camp knife. It came very sharp and cut everything from leather to cordage very well.

I use a Mora carving knife to whittle. I find that the scandi grind is very convenient for keeping sharp, because I can quickly strop or polish the edge and still maintain the exact same angle on both bevels.

I have long used a Mora Horse Shoeing knife (fixed sheep foot design) as a general use 'hacking knife' out in my shop for all the same reasons. Yea, the edge will roll a bit if you baton it through something tough, like copper wire, but I never have to worry about it being dull - even if the edge is totally dinged up, I can just lay a file flat on the bench and take the dings out in a minute. Another minute with some polishing compound on cardboard and the bevels are dressed nicely. What other double side grind will let you completely re-dress a buggered up knife in so little time, with such little effort, and with no guess work?
 
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I already played a bit with the Foster and am pretty impressed . Cuts clean,shaves and skives well . Nice control while shaping a 2x4 into a mess of shavings. Tested it against my old hunting knife and although the differences weren't dramatic I will say the Foster shaves off thin lengthwise shavings better than my hunter. But my hunter kicked it's ass in depth of cut . Maybe the Mora will prove different . I think it would make a dandy field knife for carving up wood and such . Might have to whittle a sling shot or something with it .

I'm thinking I need to make two identical knives , one with a scandi and one with a full flat with a convex edge .Both with no secondary bevel to get better test data.

I bet you will get this:

The FFG will make deeper cuts, it won't be easy to change the initial cutting angle (no lever point), at some depth of cutting the blade will be stucked in the wood.

The scandi grind will act as described by Noddy:

Part of the thing about thick stock and a relatively low grind is that, when splitting wood (I am talking about the bushcrafter here) is that the shoulders of the grind help by doing the splitting, thus, to an extent, preserving the edge.

No deep cuts, the blade cross section is at its widest not far from the edge and splits more than it cuts the wood fibers, on the scandi grind there is a lever point (the angle formed by the stock and by the bevel) which lets you keep a good control of the cutting direction.

If a scandi grind works so well on wood it only comes from the fact that wood is made of springy fibers. On any other stuff (vegetables, cardboard, rope...) the scandi grind is not proper. A scandi grind knife is a specialised tool.

dantzk.
 
If only any two people were talking about the same thing when using "Scandi grind." Knives saber [high or low], FFG, concave, convex or diamond in cross section - without without a secondary bevel - thick and thin have all been used here as examples of the "Scandi grind" and its uses.

Best of luck, Ken. Interested to see what you come up with.
 
I think that the scandi grind most are referring to in this thread is the zero saber grind.
 
Yeah, a single bevel applied that creates an edge durable enough for use, so 10+ degrees per side. You can't have a full flat grind or even a very high grind at that angle. With convex grinds, you can move the grind up because the angle is constantly changing along the curved part.
 
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