scandis with full, exposed tang

F

Foilist

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Dec 20, 2004
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I was out back today practicing getting a fire going in wet conditions, and I did a little bit of what I thought was light batoning on some 2 -3 inch or so branches to get to the dry part. Afterwards, I was alarmed to notice that I had slightly bent the blade sideways where it joins the handle:(. I was even more alarmed when I was able to bend it back into alignment by hand without great effort:eek:.

I am a little bummed because I really like the knife, but I had no idea that it was so . . . delicate. I didn't think I was being all that hard on it. The knife has a full length, hidden stick tang that is peened where it protrudes from the butt of the handle. I guess what I need if I want a heavier use scandi-style knife is one with a full, exposed tang, so what scandi knives are readily available out there there that are built like that?
 
first of all, out of curiosity, which one did you break?

i think enzo makes a full expsed tang. i have a stick-tang Helle peened on the back of the handle and i have put it through some heavy usage, and it is still fine.
 
I have even beat the living snot out of my Moras and still I didn't break mine or tweak it.

You might of got a defective knife maybe?
 
THe knife in question is a Helle Futura. I didn't break it, but I don't have much confidence in it now. Maybe the tang portion wasn't tempered or heat treated properly? The blade is good, but I was shocked to be able to bend it like that. Helles are supposed to be pretty good, and should hold up at least as well as a Mora.
 
their may be a way of contacting Helle. i would check, maybe they just did the heat treat wrong. my helle is pretty much tough as nails. but the futura is one of their newer models, somaybe they down-graded their materiels.
 
The Enzo Trapper has full width tang.
I love mine, its about my absolute favorite small knife.
But i haven't batoned with it yet.
I have however batoned with a Mora Clipper.
I love Moras but they are much lighter and less beefier than the Enzo.
So if a Clipper can take it i'm sure the Enzo can!
 
A helle.... I would definately get in touch with customer server over there to see what they can do for you..

And if they give you the blah blah... tell them you couldn't bend a 10$ mora.
 
I was contemplating buying some Helle blade blanks from Ragweed Forge but this thread is making me think twice about it now.
Foilist do you know how thick your Helle's stick tang is?
What model is it?

The Helle blade blanks i was looking at were fairly wide and full length (Tollekniv model).
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but did you bend the blade, or did you change the angle of the steel fit into the handle? Or put another way, did the steel bend or did it just shift within the handle? If it was the steel bending, I'd either study the wood and decide if I was asking too much, or contact Helle if it seemed reasonable.

If it was the handle shifting, I think you're just looking at the nature of a stick tang. I might try an Enzo, since it's about the only production full tang scandi I can think of at the moment.

For not much more, you could surely get a decent 'smith around here to cook something up for you.
 
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Seems like I have read about those laminated blades bending pretty easy. I've never had it happen with my Helle Odel but I've only done basic cutting and carving with it.
 
I sent an email to Helle, so I'll see what they have to say.

I hadn't thought about the distinction between bending it, or shifting the tang inside the handle. If the fit is loose maybe I can squirt some epoxy in there or something. I'll go fart around with it later on.

The wood was just some standing deadwood that I could break over my knee - no knots or anything. I was just tapping the blade through - I wasn't whacking on it or anything.

I'm not totally turned off from Helle in spite of this - I've never heard anything negative about them before.
 
Helle laminated blades will bend but won't break. Just bend the sucker back. That's how they're supposed to work.
 
Forgive me if I misunderstand what happened, BUT: I doubt you bent the steel Foilist. WHen they drill the holes and mortice out for the tang, the hole is bigger than needed. Now, I'm no expert here, but I've read where they used to fill that void with molten lead, but nowadays it's done with epoxy. My guess is you broke loose the bond inside the tang mortice and now it's a tad loose. I haven;t had that problem with my Symfoni, but then, I haven;t batoned with it either.

I would definitely contact your seller for a replacement.

EnZo Trapper has become my favorite Scandi knife (as if I had hundreds of them :D ). I just got a couple of new EnZo blade blanks in and ordered some buckeye, myrtle, and black ash burls. THese EnZo blades are a full tang, 1/8" thick, O-1 carbon (or D2 if you're giddy and into self torture), and can be sharpened to a super-fine edge. They're tough and I'm impressed with them.

Check BensBackwoods.com

EnZo-Ebny-02.jpg

EnZo-Ebnyrswd-01.jpg

EnZo-Ebnyrswd-03.jpg

EnZo-Ebnyrswd-02.jpg


ON EDIT: OK, I re-read your initial post Foilist. I'm sorry, I misread it the first time. How could I miss you saying you bent the blade near the hilt? I guess i was thinking you twisted it to one side.
 
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I fooled around with the Futura some more and I discovered that it will only bend a couple of degrees by hand in either direction, and that's it - even if I apply more force.

So my verdict is that it is likely that the tang fit has a little wiggle room, and it is not likely that the steel is of silly putty consistency. I have decided to keep and continue to use the knife for light duty (90% of my use, and, honestly, what the knife is intended for), but I need to be conscious of it's limits.

Stretch, you'll be getting ahold of it soon, so feel free to fool around with it yourself and see what you think. If you happen to destroy it, well, then I have an excuse to go out and buy an EnZo or Koster Bushcraft!:D
 
I am going to jump in here and state that I dont think that it is ever a good idea to baton a hidden tang knife..even if it is "lightly". The blade is often times much thinner than is visable inside the handle and the handles are often times wood. This type of knife is perfect for what it was designed for..cutting.
I think that a full tang is the way to go for the heavy duty stuff...or a hatchet. I think a good puukko and a hatchet makes a great combo...add a small saw to the equation and its looking pretty good.
I guess I am accusing you of abusing your knife really. I hope you dont get to mad at me.:D:thumbup:
 
gunknifenut said:
I guess I am accusing you of abusing your knife really. I hope you dont get to mad at me.:D:thumbup:
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Ha - I've already basically accused myself of abusing my knife, I think! What's abuse for one knife is acceptable for another. This is my first scandi and first hidden tang, so I guess I was treating it like my Northstar.

Luckily, I've learned my lesson about such knives a few hundred feet from my house rather than in an emergency in the middle of nowhere, and I've also learned something about the limitations of such knives without going far enough to actually destroy the Helle, which I have really gotten to like.
 
Foilist said:
Luckily, I've learned my lesson about such knives a few hundred feet from my house rather than in an emergency in the middle of nowhere, and I've also learned something about the limitations of such knives without going far enough to actually destroy the Helle, which I have really gotten to like.
Click to expand...

Plus the 'worst case' scenarios aren't that bad. You either are given a replacement/fix by Helle, or remove the blade and re-handle it (then it's a 'custom'!). Life's too short to sit around with a half-broken knife!
 
SpookyPistolero said:
Plus the 'worst case' scenarios aren't that bad. You either are given a replacement/fix by Helle, or remove the blade and re-handle it (then it's a 'custom'!). Life's too short to sit around with a half-broken knife!
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good point! I was just thinking if you couldrepair the knife to keep the blade from wiggling?
 
gunknifenut said:
I am going to jump in here and state that I dont think that it is ever a good idea to baton a hidden tang knife..even if it is "lightly". The blade is often times much thinner than is visable inside the handle and the handles are often times wood. This type of knife is perfect for what it was designed for..cutting.
I think that a full tang is the way to go for the heavy duty stuff...or a hatchet. I think a good puukko and a hatchet makes a great combo...add a small saw to the equation and its looking pretty good.
I guess I am accusing you of abusing your knife really. I hope you dont get to mad at me.:D:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I tend to agree regarding the full tang, but you can get a hidden tang that will work out fine, you just have to KNOW what the tang looks like. most makers will give you a 7/8 inch broad tang on a 1.25 inch broad blade if that's that you want, for example. You can even get one that is the full width of the blade with no guard at all, and a pinned and glued handle fastening- that's fairly traditional for really cold environments where metal can stick to your hands a bit too much.
 
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