Schrade Extreme Survival

[a2d2]

What you have said has already been negated. However, it would be an excellent tool to estimate precision. If nothing else, it would provide repetition of results.

care to elaborate?

 

[CaptInsano]

Well, it would be awesome if he had 2 of each knife to test. It would make any discrepancies glaringly obvious.

 

[a2d2]

Well, it would be awesome if he had 2 of each knife to test. It would make any discrepancies glaringly obvious.

i agree completely, but i'll add that i believe it's very difficult to truthfully say one knife is better than another based on a one sample test. it's all the more difficult if comparing the knife to another knife/knives in dif. steel, dif. thicknesses, and dif. heat treats etc.

 

[CaptInsano]

i agree completely, but i'll add that i believe it's very difficult to truthfully say one knife is better than another based on a one sample test. it's all the more difficult if comparing the knife to another knife/knives in dif. steel, dif. thicknesses, and dif. heat treats etc.

I don't think it provides definitive results in any form. Its just a rough estimate.

 

[a2d2]

I don't think it provides definitive results in any form. Its just a rough estimate.

some people will take these tests as gospel.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Rampant ignorance. Noss's tests are a distraction from this thread, which has already been riven with contentious disagreement. Noss's tests have always been valueless, except as a basis for trolling. They have been disproven as "tests" from the start.

Continue discussing them here and you are taking your chances. If you have to discuss them, start their own thread -- again.

 

[Kiah]

while this may be a good knife, and the review is outstanding, am I the only one who has a problem with this? It's a blatant copy of one of Chris Reeve's knives, while his newer models have a round end cap, his older ones where hex:
http://chrisreeve.com/shadow.htm

I've stated as much in the other threads on this knife. Taylor went for an exact copy, though 1095 trumps A2 as my preference. Joe Byrd even told me that they had CRK's permission to make this knife which is of course just silly.

I doubt Schrade will be cutting into CRK sales.
People that buy CRK will still buy them and savor the excellent QC and finish, people that can't afford the CRK will buy the Schrade and use them.

True enough. I haven't owned a CRK but I have handled these one-pieces for sheaths. I can't personally stand the design but the F&F are great.

A great review, of a piece of junk.

Sliding downhill there young one. It's certainly a blatant ripoff, but calling something junk without any actual knowledge of it is simply jumping on the bandwagon.

If you can hammer with it's butt cap, I trust it, too, is steel, rather than aluminum like the CRK examples referenced by an early poster.

Aluminum? I think you read something wrong.

You are clueless, either inadvertently or by design. Maybe you should step away from the keyboard until you learn something about the knife industry, so far you are remarkably ignorant.

Thanks for the insight into your clue-deprived and ethically-challenged psyche.

And the personal insults begin.

I think it much more likely that the Great Unknowable Hockey Mask contrived his "tests" to produce the results he wanted, given his previous public defamation of the Reeve brand.

Phil, can you possibly refer to Noss without name calling? Every reference you make to him you bring out your arsenal of insults. Regardless of anyone's opinion on another member of the forum, I believe we are still supposed to refrain from these personal attacks outside of the appropriate sub-forums. I'm not saying you two should be best buddies, but you should at least try to follow the rules you push on everyone else.

A whole bunch of name calling, making fun of someone's spelling, accusations, applause, rebuttals, etc.

Mistwalker is NOT A SHILL

I have no clue who mistwalker is. I'm in the dark on his other similar postings on other forums (please don't share). I know jack about EXIF data and all that. That said, Magnussen says he's not a shill and personally I'll take that over any filename numbers anyday.

WHOAAAAAA NELLIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dude got a knife.

The dude tests(uses) the knife and takes pics.

The dude then writes it up and posts it.

It's his experience with that knife.

It's a dude talking about a knife. It's what we do.

CHILL.

:thumbup:

 

[CaptInsano]

some people will take these tests as gospel.

Some will be unable to comprehend the limited value they provide. Go figure.

 

[batosai117]

WHOAAAAAA NELLIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dude got a knife.

The dude tests(uses) the knife and takes pics.

The dude then writes it up and posts it.

It's his experience with that knife.

It's a dude talking about a knife. It's what we do.

CHILL.

LMFAO....funniest post in this entire thread

 

[zenheretic]

It is a perfect comparison. The question is about copying another's design regardless of the process involved.

The argument was that legal issues, such as whether an item is patented, are irrelevant to the moral and ethical wrongness of copying. A member suggested that anyone knowingly buying a copy of a knife was "ethically challenged" and "dispicable" (which might even approach being personal in one's comments about other members).

Obviously, copies of every sort of goods flood the marketplace, just starting with "generic" drugs. So I thought - and still believe -- that my question tests whether knives are a separate class of goods with special ethical and moral constraints on making and purchasing copies.

This site says the knife is 1070, not 1095, has an MSRP of $93.xx: http://www.camping-gear-outlet.com/...urce=Froogle&utm_medium=Product+Search+Engine. It does not appear to be anything like a $100 knife if one looks at prices on the Internet, where it is widely available.

Sportsman's Warehouse is a chain sporting goods store, not a hardware store.
It has no online catalog.

For myself, I buy only Schrade knives made in the U.S.A., but that is a matter of personal choice.

No. One is legally done. The other is done without regard for the originator.

Some people seem to harbor the fallacy that a product like copying a knife is ok because if anything is wrong, the originator can simply take it to court. Court is not simple, nor is it inexpensive. Even with patents the stakes are high enough that you can lose your company if the court rules against you.

 

[knarfeng]

Actually, the only thing I find vaguely annoying about Mistwalker or his review is his Aragorn poem. Been there, done that. SCA. Mithopoeic Society member. A long time ago when I was young and dinosaurs roamed the earth before all the white hair appeared in my beard.

Aside from that, it's data. He used the knife the way it is supposed to be used, it worked well, and he recorded the results in an intelligible manner. I can handle that. Why did he write it? BTSOOM (Beats The Shit Out Of Me). Not my problem, as long as the findings were honest. And to be truthful, I have no reason to doubt the actual performance, no matter what the reason for writing it up.

I don't think that what Noss does with CRK knives enters into it. Why people brought that into this thread I do not know. Different "testing". Different knife.

I don't consider whatever happened to be equivalent to Mantis spam. That was paid opinion only. This, whether or not it is paid, is testing with data. Not the same thing.

You could call me "ethically challenged", I guess. I am more interested in the data than in why or how I got it. The deep questions are beyond my ken.

 

[CaptInsano]

No. One is legally done. The other is done without regard for the originator.

No, they were both legally done. They were both done without regard for the originator. They were both done with regard to the law.

Some people seem to harbor the fallacy that a product like copying a knife is ok because if anything is wrong, the originator can simply take it to court. Court is not simple, nor is it inexpensive. Even with patents the stakes are high enough that you can lose your company if the court rules against you.

Such are the risks of entrepreneurship.

 

[midnight flyer]

Robert, while this witch hunt is an embarrassment, there are really a lot of great people who contribute here on a regular basis and for the most part the WSS subforum is immune to this kind of churlish behavior.

Don't worry. I take these things with a grain of salt. I joined recently simply because there is more information about knives and knife making collected into a searchable format than any other place I could find with no ads.

Many times the highest and best use of a venue like this is the archives. All you need is there.

But it is obvious that there are many here that are not only very fine craftsmen, but fine human beings. There are a lot of cliques here, but also a good sense of community. That makes this a very worthwhile place and a great resource.

It is obvious that you might have to put on your flame retardant suit when you post, but it is actually that way on all forums and newsgroups.

Personally, I found Mist's review to be well thought out, well written and easy to read. I liked the pictures; they ot only showed the knife after some of the operations but they also gave a perspective on the actual sizes of things in the photos. I thought the flow of the article from start to finish made sense, and I have certainly read articles from "professional" reviewers that were not written or illustrated as well.

I liked the fact that he used the knife as I would probably use it. No matter what I pay for a knife, I simply can't make myself hit it with a hammer, and I don't even baton them. If I am camping where open fires are allowed, I take an small axe. It was good to see the baton test though by Mist as it showed some strength in design and construction without being silly about the testing procedures.

As a professional woodworker for almost 35 years, most self employed, I have been called on or had the opportunity to test different tools, wood finishes and hardware. Some items I get for free, some are loaners, and some I get to buy to try. Regardless of how I get an item, the report is unvarnished. If a tool or wood finish can't make me money, I don't like it.

Writing a test report takes a lot of time, and getting the right photos even more. I enjoy the review process of new woodworking tools and finishes will share the results offline on with other certified professionals, but rarely take the time to write anything out anymore unless I am asked.

I don't feel like I should have to defend my integrity, morality, sense of fairness, my personal test methods, the ability to be unbiased, etc., to someone that I don't know and don't care about. I have been in these contests before many times, the last time when I was disrespectful of DeWalt cordless drills on the Woodworking forum. How in the hell does someone get attached to a cordless drill?

My personal hope is that this dustup doesn't discourage others from posting their own reviews of knives and gear. There are some really great reviews here in different areas, the likes of which you won't find in too many other places. The depth of information in the archives here is incredible. Every review goes to build that up.

Heck, I've even reread Mist's a couple of times! Looking at the view count, I would have to say that I am probably not the only one.

Robert

 

[Phil Elmore]

Sure they can. The degree of this precision is subject to personal opinion.

No, they can't.

I have equated your misunderstanding as a failure to understand something. No one asked you to agree with the purpose of the tests as a valid tool of comparison. Your posts made it clear that you did not understand the premise and I have enjoyed explaining it you.

You haven't "explained" anything. You have attempted to rationalize ignorant behavior while using condescending language to screen your sophistry. It hasn't worked well.

Personally, I found Mist's review to be well thought out, well written and easy to read.

Has that not been the opinion of almost everyone who has responded to this thread? The objections raised have had nothing to do with the quality technical content of the review.

I don't feel like I should have to defend my integrity, morality, sense of fairness, my personal test methods, the ability to be unbiased, etc., to someone that I don't know and don't care about.

You don't. Normally you wouldn't need to, unless the question came up specifically as a result of how you presented your review. At that time you could either choose to answer the questions directly and simply, which is the easiest way to do it (and the honest way), or you could throw up a wall of obfuscation and defensive resentment that makes you look more guilty (which was apparently what happened in this case), prompting readers to look more deeply and perhaps raise even more objections. It may well be the case that "mistwalker" simply has been misunderstood, despite everything, and if that's the case, great; This type of reaction to a review is not typical but was prompted more by his own statements and reactions than by anything else.

The only people this could possibly discourage from posting are people so easily frightened that they ought not be posting on the Internet anyway. Public discourse requires us to be a lot less fragile than that.

 

[Broos]

Wow, this thread runs the gamut, from knife reviews, justification of almost identical copying of designs (how hard is it to come up with a new design, eh?), to an attempt at a scientific justification for the repeatability of randomly wailing away on a knife with a hammer! Didn't an old prophet say this was a sign that the end is near?

 

[kurodrago]

I don't even know "mistwalker." I have no reason to hate him. I do have to question why he would not be honest about his relationship to Taylor, however. It's fine to do a review of a product submitted for that purpose. It's dishonest and unethical to pretend you just happened to randomly buy that item, however, because that changes the expectations for the review.



He hides behind a silly mask and behind the anonymity of the Web. He refuses to attach his name and thus his reputation to the work he publishes. He's been directly asked to do so, and he refuses, preferring instead to make childish insults. He is hiding, and he is hiding specifically because he cannot in good conscience take responsibility for that work, which is repeatedly misrepresented as meaning something substantive with regard to the knives "tested."

Your sophisticated level of writing makes you intelligent but you melodrama to say something simple make you funny.

As I said before, people who want to know more about noss.....just ask him.

Rampant ignorance. Noss's tests are a distraction from this thread, which has already been riven with contentious disagreement. Noss's tests have always been valueless, except as a basis for trolling. They have been disproven as "tests" from the start.

That is your opinion...the man who decides the good and evil.
In this forum is becoming Propaganda to say (who..... Noss, no good!)

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

 

[Phil Elmore]

Your sophisticated level of writing makes you intelligent but you melodrama to say something simple make you funny.

All your base are belong to us.

As I said before, people who want to know more about noss.....just ask him.

He's been asked. Specifically, he was asked in this foru to identify himself and take responsibility for his work. He refused, and refused to discuss the matter after a single post.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

All guests will check values at the door.

 

[Angus McGunnigl]

WHOAAAAA NELLIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna now personally thank Mr.Mistwalker( IF THAT IS YOUR REAL NAME!!!!!!!!!!)

Thanks fo the great pics and review.

I just wish you had included a spine-whack test. How strong is the lock on this knife?

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I would rather

than read this whole thread. Much of it appears to be

and pretty well useless.

Though I personally don't have any interest in how well knockoff knives perform, I do think that Mistwalker did a good job putting that knife through some paces and did a good job of reporting his findings. Does receiving free knives from the company negate what he has posted? Maybe, maybe not. Only Mistwalker knows for sure what his motivation is for posting his review. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Future posts of his will give me a much better idea of how seriously to take him.

 

[Phil Elmore]

The issue was never whether the knives were submitted to him for review by the company, at least not to me. The issue was whether he misrepresented that fact.