Science Fiction Knife Advice

[stabman]

You want this:

Just give the TOPS SXB a non-conductive handle, and you're set.

It will pry, cut, saw, and kill all those stupid aliens that try to take your valuable space treasure.

 

[strategy9]

"What would a knife look like, if it was meant to be a multipurpose tool for poor, run down space peoples in [this imaginary universe]? I'm thinking an 8" blade with a tanto point, saw edge back, and a smaller hilt. Main uses are stabbing and jamming, some sawing, lots of prying, and not a small number of fights with other species and humans. Coated in a non conductive material, these would be one of the most important things a human owns. Since I know less about knives, I ask you what you think the design should be, and what the most common uses would be. Thank you for help!"

First, It would absolutely be made with
S3C-125VTiH1 steel,

It's a future alloy that embodies enhanced qualities of the now well outdated 3V, H1, and S125V combined;
70hrc with far superior toughness at max hardness, creating near perfect edge holding, with near perfect stainlessness, and all with relative light weight and machinability with modern tools. A real life adamantium if you will, created through an advanced hydrogen cold fusion process.

The steel of the future, it's actually quite common stuff 100 Or so years from now.

 

[strategy9]

I envision a short 12-16" club in a drop sheath, with a full length sharpened D-guard blade. Weighted on one end like a mini war hammer for pounding, a tip on the other end designed for prying. Then, With advanced designs and materials, (even stronger then a TriAd lock), the prytip doubles as a front flipper as the clubs sharpened hand guard unfolds to reveal a holed out 2 handed, double edged, kukri chopper.
The hammer end also produces an automatic micro-serrated hacksaw blade...

It's probably designed through a Swiss Army / Busse collaboration.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

I'd suspect that in space they would use knives similar to those that deep sea divers would use. Blades easy to access and use with thick gloves on and limited mobility.

A dive knife like my Blackie Collins Wenoka.

not my knife

 

[Max Archer]

It sounds to me like the "spacers" in question are the illicit scavenger types often seen in darker scifi works, not the well-equipped starfleet types that some people are imagining.

Somebody mentioned the Countycomm breacher bar, and that's exactly the kind of thing I'm picturing too. Just replace the flat tip with some kind of point and put some handle scales on it, and I think you've got the tool for the job. If the setting permits it I'd make it out of some sort of non-ferrous metal, maybe a super-hard titanium alloy, or even out of some kind of futuristic ceramic or polymer.

Corrosion is definitely a concern, there's a good chance these guys will end up on ships with inadequate life support and humid atmospheres, and god only knows what the planets they go to will be like.

I also don't think they all have to be handmade out of scrap or anything. I think they'd run the same kind of gamut that modern knives do, from cheapos made in the space equivalent of China to high-end customs for successful traders and crime bosses and the like. I do, however, think that almost all of them would be customized or modified to some degree, and some of that might be done with space junk. I also imagine a lot of design variation, and people would likely choose something that fits their needs, so somebody who stays away from conflict and does a lot of salvaging might choose something thicker and blunter, while a brawler might have a long, thin, and pointy weapon.

 

[Scott321]

2nd post with different ideas.

Space ship non-salvage: I'm sure weight would be a concern. Metal weapons might also be prohibited and would have to be snuck onboard or made from on board allowable items. How about an implantable non- metal instrument (since butt pockets aren't sexy for Sci-Fi stories).

Mining on planets: Workers could salvage broken parts or even make blades from minerals, crystals, or even rocks mined.

Planets with life: blades could be made from animal bones/teeth/claws of indigenous wildlife.

 

[hank_rearden]

In the Dune anthology, people used ordinary steel (and sand worm teeth) to make knives with blades 10cm to 20 cm in length. Handles were either symmetrical dagger types or those with deep finger grooves. They also used rapiers, dart guns, lances, needle knives.

 

[abbydaddy]

Wow! Just getting a chance to come back to this! Looks like some reading to do

 

[abbydaddy]

'Stabbing' and 'Prying' tend to be mutually exclusive. It sounds as though what is really being looked for is a culturally distinct weapon/tool for this group of people.

Form follows function, so the more you know about this society and its environment, the better you'll be able to design something.

Is this culture space-dwelling, spacefaring, or simply living on sci-fi planet of some sort?

Is the knife primarily a weapon, i.e. a sword, or primarily a tool that is often used as a weapon, i.e. a machete?

If it is a weapon, what/who was it designed to be used against? If a tool, what was its primary purpose?

If a weapon, is it largely ceremonial at this point? If a tool, how everyday a tool is it?

What materials and technologies are available to this culture? Could this tool be an advanced alloy (nonferrous or not) with electrically isolated handle made from advanced composites? Or is it a sharpened chunk of scrap steel made from spaceship wreckage with an electrical tape handle?

I think you hit very well on what is being sought. A culturally distinct weapon/tool.

The spacer characters would essentially be space dwelling nomads. Some of them would work on ships belonging to other species. A lot of them would be opportunistic scavengers/borderline pirates (but not too piratey lest they attract more powerful enforcement groups).

The general idea is that humanity is a pretty marginal species in this scenario. They are seen almost more as clever pests by most other species.

The knife would be a tool that is frequently used as a weapon. The idea is that the fighting would mostly be stabbing, not a lot of slicing since most of the time they would be fighting people in some sort of spacesuits/protective gear.

Obviously there would be firearms of some kind in real intentional planned acts of violence, but I feel like a part of the (weapon) purpose of the knife would be something that was handy for violent flareups in situations where guns weren't an option.

As a tool the knife would, I guess, need to be handy as a general hard use tool.

It's not my story, but this is the impressions that I have.

 

[abbydaddy]

First of all, apologies for a very long post.

Shipboard life
Near-term space travel will be regimented and routine: a job for everybody, and everybody doing their job, with lots of emphasis on checklists and safety procedures. It will be as boring as you can imagine, with none of the romance and glamor that pre-spaceflight writers were so fond of adding to it. There will be many knife enthusiasts on board ships, but they will leave their knives at home, or in long-term storage, because there is too much danger of a co-worker stealing them. With all the emphasis on safety, most companies will forbid knives of any kind, since something that makes a hole in things inside, essentially, a gigantic pressure vessel, is a bad idea!

Colonies
Mining colonies and other corporate ventures are, potentially, where you'll see the most variety of cutting implements, since people will have access to tools to make tools, and leisure time to use them.
Colonies that are established for other reasons will resemble the colonization of America, or Australia. Here again, the level of technical sophistication will vary widely, with some able to order expensive knives made on industrialized worlds, some having to knap their own tools from the local equivalent of flint, and everything in between. Prison colonies will absolutely forbid knives, and the improvised weapons that you see in those environments will tax anybody's imagination.

The knives
The actual composition of knives is a bit harder to predict. My guess is that there will be a move away from steel, and into unique silica matrices, or laminated materials that incorporate some steel, but only enough to give it the ability to flex under shock or strain.
With the advent of these materials, all-steel blades will at first be considered "cheap", and "not cool". The art of sharpening will mostly die out, since the laminated blades will never need sharpening.
With time, all steel blades will acquire a nostalgic feel, and a loyal following of their own. Freehand sharpening will return as an art among this group, with forums dedicated to the practice and exchange of information. Some makers will discover "old processes", used to shape steel into knife blades.
The majority of the human race will continue to use mass-produced factory knives that look and feel pretty much like what we've got today, but with much better edge retention. New materials will be used, but function drives form, and you gotta have a "holdy end", and a "sharp end", and that won't change.

Space pirates
Because, why not?
There will be some, especially in the early years, when ships are relatively slow, and communication takes a long time.
The space pirates will probably use something we would recognize as a trench knife. Shipboard combat will take place in long corridors, and the idea of powerful projectiles, or energy beams, that could pierce the hull, will be something nobody wants! So fights will be at arms-length, with nasty improvised weapons, made out of mass-produced materials.

Ooh, I really like the idea of trench knives in space! I am definitely telling my friend about that one.

 

[abbydaddy]

I'd suspect that in space they would use knives similar to those that deep sea divers would use. Blades easy to access and use with thick gloves on and limited mobility.

A dive knife like my Blackie Collins Wenoka.

not my knife

That was one of my thoughts as well

 

[abbydaddy]

It sounds to me like the "spacers" in question are the illicit scavenger types often seen in darker scifi works, not the well-equipped starfleet types that some people are imagining.

Somebody mentioned the Countycomm breacher bar, and that's exactly the kind of thing I'm picturing too. Just replace the flat tip with some kind of point and put some handle scales on it, and I think you've got the tool for the job. If the setting permits it I'd make it out of some sort of non-ferrous metal, maybe a super-hard titanium alloy, or even out of some kind of futuristic ceramic or polymer.

Corrosion is definitely a concern, there's a good chance these guys will end up on ships with inadequate life support and humid atmospheres, and god only knows what the planets they go to will be like.

I also don't think they all have to be handmade out of scrap or anything. I think they'd run the same kind of gamut that modern knives do, from cheapos made in the space equivalent of China to high-end customs for successful traders and crime bosses and the like. I do, however, think that almost all of them would be customized or modified to some degree, and some of that might be done with space junk. I also imagine a lot of design variation, and people would likely choose something that fits their needs, so somebody who stays away from conflict and does a lot of salvaging might choose something thicker and blunter, while a brawler might have a long, thin, and pointy weapon.

Max, I think you've definitely got the right kind of idea of the type of spacers in this story. As well as the right picture for the kind of economics that would affect knife choice.

I think one of the key ideas is that there is some kind of characteristic knife type, in the spirit of kind of tribal affiliation type weapon (think Persian knives, or Bowie knives, or Gaucho knives as blades that have cultural baggage). I think you are right that there would be a great deal of variety/customization, but I think the goal is to imagine a basic template.

 

[K.O.D.]

It sounds to me like the "spacers" in question are the illicit scavenger types often seen in darker scifi works, not the well-equipped starfleet types that some people are imagining.

Somebody mentioned the Countycomm breacher bar, and that's exactly the kind of thing I'm picturing too. Just replace the flat tip with some kind of point and put some handle scales on it, and I think you've got the tool for the job. If the setting permits it I'd make it out of some sort of non-ferrous metal, maybe a super-hard titanium alloy, or even out of some kind of futuristic ceramic or polymer.

Corrosion is definitely a concern, there's a good chance these guys will end up on ships with inadequate life support and humid atmospheres, and god only knows what the planets they go to will be like.

I also don't think they all have to be handmade out of scrap or anything. I think they'd run the same kind of gamut that modern knives do, from cheapos made in the space equivalent of China to high-end customs for successful traders and crime bosses and the like. I do, however, think that almost all of them would be customized or modified to some degree, and some of that might be done with space junk. I also imagine a lot of design variation, and people would likely choose something that fits their needs, so somebody who stays away from conflict and does a lot of salvaging might choose something thicker and blunter, while a brawler might have a long, thin, and pointy weapon.

Just because I'm a crime boss doesn't mean I'm into custom knives. Please, no stereotypes

 

[Balls Deep]

I would say a hollow handle single piece knife with some modifications. Start with a single piece hollow handle:

Have the end extend into a pry bar. And then make the guard a circular shape with inserts, possibly threaded to accept a specific size of galvanized pipe or something grooves for a pre-forged and available piece of metal to fit into to use as a lever for prying. It would cover the blade in a way that would not damage the edge.

 

[strategy9]

All joking aside, a D-handled machete and a good stout leatherman would be a pretty good combo in a scenario as described...

 

[Dr Heelhook]

+1 on that Chris Reeve one piece, gorgeous. That thing should get more media exposure.

 

[Balls Deep]

Now that I'm thinking about the threaded circular guard I'm think threads on bottom and top. And then you could have a collapsible super hardened staff that could extend to carrying lengths. This way the knife could become a pry bar or a spear and versatility of being anywhere from several inches to up to 8 feet long, longer might be impracticable.

I would say for manufacturing no design would be off the table because at this point 3d machining of steel would be widely available and cheap. Any ship would have at least a medium end 3d machine. Like baking a cake you could just put a bunch of junk metal and ceramics in the machine and the machine would spit out perfectly uniform super alloys in whatever shapes and sizes you wanted. Even the poorest colonies would probably have access to some level of this technology unless it was an agrarian society.

This thread is bad ass.

 

[stabman]

I would say for manufacturing no design would be off the table because at this point 3d machining of steel would be widely available and cheap.

But that does not fit in with a grungy, post-apocalyptic, humans as scavengers of the galaxy type of setting.

I mean, if we were going high tech, you'd just send in the nanobot swarm to grab whatever was needed, but that doesn't make for high adventure, with shipboard combat against alien scum, does it?

Remember the original question:

Here was his original question:

"What would a knife look like, if it was meant to be a multipurpose tool for poor, run down space peoples in [this imaginary universe]? I'm thinking an 8" blade with a tanto point, saw edge back, and a smaller hilt. Main uses are stabbing and jamming, some sawing, lots of prying, and not a small number of fights with other species and humans. Coated in a non conductive material, these would be one of the most important things a human owns. Since I know less about knives, I ask you what you think the design should be, and what the most common uses would be. Thank you for help!"

(bolding added by me)

 

[WValtakis]

I've gotta go with one forged from a Titaniumturbine blade , but admittedly I am biased. Best, 'cause aliens got the acid blood...ya know?

~Chip

 

[Balls Deep]

But that does not fit in with a grungy, post-apocalyptic, humans as scavengers of the galaxy type of setting.

I mean, if we were going high tech, you'd just send in the nanobot swarm to grab whatever was needed, but that doesn't make for high adventure, with shipboard combat against alien scum, does it?

Remember the original question:



(bolding added by me)

We can 3d machine moving parts today. I think laws of physics around weak points of blades probably wouldn't change so it would be in your best interest to create fixed blades. I think access to energy would be a primary struggle so that would be your barrier to creating nanobot swarms. I'm thinking of a scenario where trillions of these tools would have been pumped out to just provide to colonists and anyone willing to get out there and that's where the ease of access may come from.

I would say otherwise, people would just be grinding out knives by hand on ship parts in which case they would basically be what we have now.

I like the comments about ship battles being mostly melee due to not damaging the ships, this would create an extra added need for more of a halberd style convertible weapon.

Geeking as hard as I can.