Scout knives vs SAK

I'm a big fan of SAK alox pioneer for function and style. But this thread has me wanting to look for an old scout knife. Beautiful knives shared in this thread.
-Rex
 
SAKs have become the modern scout knife for reasons that are perfectly understandable — all those variations in blades & tools (in stainless steel!) which let you choose whatever you need. They're great, and I have several (including a Wenger Standard Issue, a Wenger Highlander, a Vic Pioneer) which could and would serve as my go-to-scout-camp knife if I were 13 years old today.

But for me, who was a Scout 50 years ago, a real Scout knife is one that was made in the 1950s or 60s (or earlier) by Imperial, Ulster, Camillus, etc., etc. Nothing more recent clears the bar.

http://www.scoutknives.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=57

And here are two of mine:

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I love scouts. They're may favorite pattern. The alox Vic Pioneer and the Wenger Standard Issue, IMHO, are pretty much the pinnacle of the scout pattern. The Swiss are able to make them in a more compact design with less crinking requiring, and with far better quality control. The can opener works better, and has a very useful philips screwdriver. The stainless is good from an edge holding perspective, sharpens easily, and is nearly god-like in its stainlessness. The awl/punch design is sensational. The pull on the blades is perfect. If you get a red handled alox, the wabi that forms over time looks wonderful. The knives also tend to be lighter than they're American counterparts.

The American design scouts, especially the later-made Camillus 99 style knives do have some advantages though. The blade belly tends to be bigger, giving you a larger cutting surface. The blade is angled downward a bit from the handle, making cutting more comfortable and giving a bit more leverage on the cut. Because the overall use of inside space is less efficient, the knives tend to be wider, making them more comfortable for me to use over longer periods of time. And of course, you get actual scale materials on American scouts, making them quite a bit more fun to collect from an aesthetic perspective. I also like the look of the brass liners on many american scouts, which the Swiss quit using long ago.

In the end, the Swiss alox scouts are ruthlessly efficient and effective. Small, light, absurdly well made, and nearly impossible to ruin. From a functional perspective, they are far superior to the american scout for everyday carry. I carried a Pioneer for five years straight, and the knife always got the job done.

From a more sentimental view, the American scout has a lot to offer. You can buy a basic delrin model, or go for something in bone. You can dive into the whole BSA heritage aspect of the scout. You can even find older carbon steel models, which people like me just love. If you have a can opener fetish, they're are like a billion different ones to find.
 
I carry a SAK everyday. Victorinox Farmer. Can't say that I ever did that for any (other) scout knife, and the scout knife is my favorite pattern. As Buzbait said, I too find the Vic Farmer, Pioneer, Soldier, and Wenger SI the pinnacle of the pattern. That the Farmer and Pioneer can be had for such relatively low costs just further ensures their value/bang for the buck. They're each a whole lot of knife. Even more so considering the price.
 
Both traditionals, both useful, both nice. :)
But...I'm on this side of the Atlantic, and nothing around here beats SAK's ;)

Fausto
:cool:
 
Buzzbait said:
I love scouts. They're may favorite pattern... [mucho ausgeschnitten] ....If you have a can opener fetish, they're are like a billion different ones to find.
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Having just acquired a Camillus US Army Engineer's knife from the 1942-44 period, I love its weirdly antique "two-finger" can opener, with the little tab extending out to the side and requiring a notch in the liner and the scale. Here's an image posted by smiling-knife (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1108392-Camillus-Mom-and-apple-pie). I'm using this because mine looks just like this one and I don't (yet) have a photo taken.

USA004.jpg


My scout/camper knives, being from the 1950s, all use the common eagle-claw can opener which appeared in 1945, almost overnight it seems. Buzzbait, you're exactly right about can-opener variations. And there's no question that the can-opener evolution isn't over: the current SAK/Phillips head combo is proof of that.

Hmmm. Maybe there's a sub-field of scout/camper collecting here....
 
I today after a while of considering decided to use my alpjne backpacker which I realize has pretty similar tools to the farmer with the inclusion of a file and a corkscrew. The other knife I was thinking of was a kamp King. Thanks for your opinions! Scout knives just give me a sentimental feeling like no other even though I was only born in 99.
 
AreBeeBee said:
Having just acquired a Camillus US Army Engineer's knife from the 1942-44 period
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Congrats. I don't know what the average quality was on those Camillus Engineer's Knives, but mine is absolutely off the charts. Overbuilt, great walk and talk, and awesome heat treatment on the main blade. Fit and finish was a bit rushed, but the usability of the knife far exceeds most modern counterparts. Awesome, awesome knives.
 
I have a Western 905 second that I got for $10 in my pocket right now, but I think the SAK's like the Farmer and the OHO come out on top as they have a wood saw. So many things you can do with that saw, and the only Scout type Knife with a saw that comes to mind is a Remington R4 and they are not that common. John
 
RexRazorX said:
What brand are these guys? Are they carbon steel or stainless?
I just grabbed an ulster stainless that looks like it is in good nick. Hope to get it in a couple days.
-Rex
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The top one is an Imperial (ca.1958-62) , the lower one is Ulster (1962-79). Both are carbon steel.

See (scroll down) —

IMPC4E, BSA #1996:
http://www.scoutknives.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=60

ULSC4G, BSA #1996:
http://www.scoutknives.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=67&Itemid=59

I also have a different Imperial ("5-blade" = flip-out Phillips head + usual four blades), made in 1952-62 —

IMPC5A, BSA #1046:
IMPC5A_1.JPG

(Image is from the Scoutknives.net site)

All three are carbon steel.
 
RexRazorX said:
Thanks AreBeeBee - that site is a nice resource. You have a very cool collection.
-Rex
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Thank you, but I have to say that these are available readily on the auction site on any given day. (Not the rosewood Imperial 5-blade job — but 5-blade scout/camper knives do come up regularly.) Condition will vary, but of course that just gives you the opportunity of doing your best to erase/eradicate/roll back the scars from time's claws.

As someone on BF once said, "I wish people would take better care of things that someday will be mine."
 
While I always have a nice traditional knife in one of my pockets I also ALWAYS also have a SAK. A Classic or Companion is always in my right front and there is a Cadet in the RH pocket of most of my coats / jackets.
 
John A. Larsen said:
I have a Western 905 second that I got for $10 in my pocket right now, but I think the SAK's like the Farmer and the OHO come out on top as they have a wood saw. So many things you can do with that saw, and the only Scout type Knife with a saw that comes to mind is a Remington R4 and they are not that common. John
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I have an Remington R4 in my pocket as we speak. It's one of my favorites !
 
I like this style knife. I had a BSA Scout knife that was purchased at a Sears & Roebuck back in the 40s/50s but haven't seen it in years. Although not a Scout knife, this type of utility knife has also been used by Scouts in the past and I'm sure even todayl

MhQCuib.jpg


I'll be carrying this Victorinox Pioneer while in Long Beach, CA this week. It is a handy knife to carry while traveling and of course I'll have a modern style knife with me too.

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We're driving so the ever present Huntsman will travel in it's place in the console - a very handy travel companion.

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I love old-style traditionals, but I don't think SAK can be beat for quality and value. You can get a ton of knife for less than $30, and they're very well made. That Swiss thing, don't you know.:cool:
 
I like the US marked all stainless knives, only have three, I think. Also have a couple SAK's, I think a Super Tinker, but not sure. Was one of two in a Wally World/Target Christmas Special pack, about 8 or 10 years ago. The second was/is the small one for the key chain, complete with a toothpick and ink pen.
Both the "scout" or utility pattern and SAK are useful, in my opinion.
 
I just got a nice Ulster BSA scout - stainless blades and saw cut delrin handles. I don't remember what brand scout knife I had when I was a kid. I traded it off in some kinda barter. This Ulster blows away my childhood camp knife. This thing is a tank. Blade and tools are all good stock. Very solid build. I got the blade shaving sharp without much effort. This is a very fun knife. But I can see why the SAK Pioneer has an advantage. The Ulster is hands down the heaviest object I own. This knife feels awesome in your hand. In the pocket it feels like a boat anchor. Well I guess that's what the bail is for.
-Rex
 
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RexRazorX said:
I just got a nice Ulster BSA scout ... thing is a tank. ... The Ulster is hands down the heaviest object I own. ... In the pocket it feels like a boat anchor.
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One of the main reasons I never ever carry the old Ulster BSA knife I have, and greatly prefer SAK.

-- Mark
 
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