Scoutmasters---Sometimes Crazy

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steelscout30

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Aug 1, 2006
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As some of you might know, I'm one of the Boy Scouts of BladeForums. I'm currently a Life Scout, but working on the tedious final details of the Eagle Scout service project.

We're staging at a campout at a rural camp here in the wonderful country county of Crawford in Ohio tomorrow night to acclimate upcoming Webelos to the more mature Scout ways. I've attended Philmont, summer camp, and a sea base at Key West. Surviving in those high temperatures is certainly easy compared to camping outside in this weather.

This morning, while I was out plowing with a Chevy 2500HD Z71 4x4 for my family's asphalt contracting business (we plow what we pave), the exterior temperature readout read -13 degrees Fahrenheit before windchill---pretty cold for anywhere, but especially for central Ohio.

We're camping outside in tents---I have a North Face 4-season that I'm particularly proud of, along with the appropriate artic-rated bag. I'm big into the "Be Prepared" thing of Scouting. :D I was wondering if any of my fellow W&SS posters had any good advice for to help me keep and eye out for my younger Scouts.

My Scoutmaster won't cancel, refuses to let us sleep in the lodges, and I want to watch out for the younger guys if this camp is going on. If it really gets bad, I say mutinee. Irregardless, it's dangerously cold---I've told them bring two bags, bring pads for on the cold ground, spare blankets, many, many, many layers, Carhartt clothing, wool socks, wool watch caps, face masks, scarves, dozens of pairs of gloves, kindling for the fire---the most typical, common-sense stuff I can tell them, I've told them. I have notebooks packed for merit badge work with them, which might add loft to their clothing and retain more heat. There will be two lodges they can take shelter in with heat and hot water. Any common sense step I can imagine, I've taken. I was wondering if you might have any secret tricks to cold-weather survival that might not be in my repertoire of knowledge yet. I want to nut it up and be a Polar Bear, and do it safely. Thanks for the help.

God bless.

KATN,

Wade
 
- stay awake all night and keep an eye on them. Rig windbreaks to slow the wind down from the tents. Maybe build a DEEP snow pit and cover it with 3" poles and a tarp, and heat it with candles (again, you stay up and supervise). Everyone can sleep in the snow shelter (how many Scouts? ). make sure they eat a large hot meal before turning in, it will helpkeep them warm. Hot chocolate and oreos are great for morale. Make sure none are wearing cotton (oh god do i remember that mistake....). Buy some of that hard pink insulation board, the 2" thick stuff and have them put their sleeping pads on top. That stuff rules for winter camping,
 
hey change all cloths and stay dry keep your face out of the bag the wetness of your breath will make it damp and cold space blanket
 
I would personally hand check every scouts sleeping setup before dark and pack every spare blanket I could get my hands on to add to their setups. I am not that experienced with extreme cold being from Texas, but I always have a fire going and plenty of small stuff on hand to get it going again if it should go out. Maybe have a 2-3 person fire watch at all times?
 
I'm not sure what your scoutmaster is thinking. It is HIS responsibility to keep the "boys" safe including yourself (no offense) and it seems he's lost his common sense at the moment.

Now, don't take it that I'm trying to bad mouth the fella too much but in this kind of weather, I really surprised you don't have more parents stepping up and saying "No way".

Most of what I know has already been said or you've thought of yourself. Wool, hot food & drinks + oreos before bed, hat, rotate a couple of hot water bottles, maybe warm some rocks in the fire to sleep with when wrapped in something to keep from burning someone.

If this happens, I wish you all the luck and I'll say a prayer for a safe and good time to be had.

God bless.
 
You definitely want closed cell pads against the ground. A Thermarest type is OK as long as it's on top of a closed cell, but not on the ground itself. Hot water bottles in the sleeping bags will help. Make sure they all go to the bathroom before they hit the rack or their body wastes energy warming waste products up. A small snack before bed helps to create some extra energy as well.
 
Thanks for all the concern and help thus far.

I have confidence in my Scoutmaster---he knows what he's doing. He himself was an Eagle Scout, has attended Philmont as a youth over half a dozen times, and is currently a law enforcement officer and known state and nationwide as an excellent trainer. Sometimes he's a bit gungho in his application of that knowledge, and forgets that the kids are just that---young kids.

No doubt he'll watch us all carefully, including myself. I'm sure some parents will step up and say, "No way." And I hope so---that will mean less people I'll be personally responsible for in this nasty weather as senior patrol leader. I'll be on fire watch---15-foot-tall bonfires are my particular specialty at these campouts, as well as being the one with the sharpest knives (you guys on the forums are bad influences :D). Hot chocolate and coffee always fresh, just like Speedway.

I personally checked all the equipment loads and talked with parents as to what I told their kids they would need to add---sometimes their is a lack of parent to kid communication (you guys know how it is). A few years ago, one of my older Scouts showed up to a winter campout in a long-sleeve shirt, tennis shoes, and jeans. Once I got done laughing, I sent him home. I have plenty of fire kindling materials, and there is already chopped firewood on hand from a past campout stored in racks in the lodge. I got carried away with my batoning. ;)

We'll try and stay warm and safe---thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate it. Keep them coming if you can think of anything.

God bless.

KATN,

Wade
 
I have a feeling (and very much hope) that the scout master is simply saying that you guys will not be able to use the lodges as a bit of a tease. But bring along all the stuff mentioned before and let him look like the fool when you manage to outfit all the scouts with a proper set up for the conditions. Some boiling water into nalgene bottles in the sleeping bag would also be a good idea, perhaps heat up some smaller rocks for some radiant heat. Lots of insulation between your body and the ground is vital, maybe even cut some pine boughs, then blankets on top of that with the pink insulation board and then sleeping pads on top of that. Good luck, but I have a feeling you guys will be in the lodges when push comes to shove. If you at least don't have to option I don't think that your leader is making responsible choices.
 
the pee bottle is a winter time essential. It just takes too much out of you to get out of the warm tent, just to be back in a cold sleeping bag moments later. Also eat more to keep fuel in the furnace. Socks...wear the right kind and in the right amounts. Each scout should also bring a bunch of disposable hand warmers...cheap but can add a little comfort on super cold days.
 
steelscout30 - good luck! I'm in Central Ohio so I know what you're talking about for weather.

What troop are you in? Where?

Just curious because as my son gets older I want to get him involved in scouting and I want to get involved as well.

If you want to talk, e-mail me at cmdr249 at yahoo.com
 
I would lecture the scouts on the signs of hypothermia and emphasize that they keep an eye on each other, as first stage hypothermia is hard to recognize in one's self. In my view, making them responsible for the well being of their fellow scouts would also provide a good lesson in team work.
 
x39 said:
I would lecture the scouts on the signs of hypothermia and emphasize that they keep an eye on each other, as first stage hypothermia is hard to recognize in one's self. In my view, making them responsible for the well being of their fellow scouts would also provide a good lesson in team work.
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That's an excellent point!

Also you may want to pair them up or put them in 3-person teams so no one goes anywhere by themselves and there is always at least 1 buddy per person. It may be your standard operating procedure but emphasizing why it is important in the weather could be a good tool as well.
 
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Not to badmouth him or anything, but he is crazy if he is to let young kids stay outside in this. School is being closed because of the cold, I don't see how you can go camping in it..
 
I'd like to have a word with this scout master, I think he's got a screw loose! I was a leader for 20 years, and never have I heard of anyone denying the camp goers access to the lodges during a winter camp. This fellow should be dealt with before he causes peoples' kids to get hurt! I am very angry to hear of this, and if it was a Scouts Canada matter, I'd be there like white on rice trying to get this jackass ousted from the ranks! :grumpy:
 
When I used to teach the Scout rifle merit badge class, I learned that it's important to have a high instructor-to-student ratio. When dealing with something potentially dangerous, whether it be firearms or extremely cold weather, you don't want only one or two leaders trying to keep track of a large group of Scouts who are inexperienced in the skill being taught.

DancesWithKnives
 
As a scout master of 32 years who taught Igloo building and snow camping I would add the most important item is a good stocking cap to wear while in the sleeping bag. If these kids have not been adequately trained and equiped for cold weather camping, someone could end up in court. I never took anyone under 12 (14 if I could help it.) I once cancelled a tent trip at -14 deg. They were not prepared. If properly trained and equiped you can be confortable in an igloo at any outside temperature. But those are BIG IF's. When I lived in Chicago the scout troop was not prepared, so we filled the tents with straw (clear to the tops).
Final word. -14 degree is TOO COLD for amature tent camping, even with good equipment.
Ron Athay
 
when i was in Cubs/Scouts/Eagles, we routinely went of multi day -30 celcius + added windchill camping trips and day hikes. We had kids as young as 7 y/o . We all did fine.

Has the cold weather/ outdoors gene has been bred out of Society? seriously.... seems all we see today is dont go outside, you'll get cold, wet. dirty, booboo'ed, out of breath etc etc. Stay inside, the Wii will take care of your fitness needs. Stare at the game console and mimic the players. Shiny thing shiny thing tune in - Outside World is bad and dangerous- Inside World is SAFE.

just saying.....We got - 50 celcuis temps up here in the Prairies and kids are out everyday playing and camping in it, no big deal. Schools are closed because they dont have the budget to crank the heaters up to keep the school warm.

I'm sure that the Lodge will be available to those that are cold (theres that common sense thing again) . And those that sleep thru the night outside (GASP THEY SLEPT OUTSIDE! THE HORROR!!! ) and wake up will be able to brag that they did it, or will brag about what they will do differently next time.

never mind, just venting. ;) not directed at anyone. Just society in general
 
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Bushman5 said:
just saying.....We got - 50 celcuis temps up here in the Prairies and kids are out everyday playing and camping in it, no big deal. Schools are closed because they dont have the budget to crank the heaters up to keep the school warm.
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Haha, I know. School was cancelled in Nova Scotia because of snow, out west snow means nothing, school is only cancelled for kids now when its -45( pure temp) or more.
 
Some great advice here , Socks,knit hats , heating pads(chemical or hot water or stone) the problem IMHO is the lodge. If there was not a lodge the only question would be are we prepared and go or no go . If things look that bad bump it up to a higher level for advice. Large warm-up fires or even fire beds would be an idea. We can't prepare for every contingency but should be prepare for the one we know (extreme cold).
 
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