Scoutmasters---Sometimes Crazy

I would say there needs to be a good list of mandatory gear and an inspection before you leave.

I was on a deal here several years ago when a Troop was up in mountains and some snow hit. They were not lost or stranded so I never really got the reason why S&R was called in, but they were. By the time most of the S&R got to the trailhead the Scouts were coming down the trail. Somewhere someone panicked because of the snow I believe, probably a parent.

All the Scout were fine, some were cold and wet but no one needed medical attention. The most disheartening thing was the Scout leader complaining to the S&R guys about how his guys failed to bring the proper gear and it wasn’t his fault etc etc. We all know there are a lot of sub standard parents out there and bottom line if you are the adult taking the kids out then you are responsible.

So I hope your Scoutmaster has all his bases covered but, good on you for getting all the info you can.
 
Thanks again for all the great advice. The "pee bottle" is a trick I learned at Philmont, although I kept mine in a ScentLok container due to the fact that sometimes wild animals are attracted to human waste---I didn't want a bear or mountain lion knocking because I was too lazy to get out of the tent. :D

Also, the hot water, rocks, etc., is already a contigency I'm working on. I also have several Thermos containers waiting to be filled with hot liquids, from hot water to hot milk to hot coffee. I've packed handwarmers, and have a thick wool stocking hat to wear---it's sort of my trademark, that watch cap.

Keep the suggestions coming if you have them---you have my gratitude.

God bless.

KATN,

Wade
 
Buy a box or two of hand warmers, I know its not very Woodsy, but I keep them in the car for emergencies. You could pass them out at night for people to throw in their socks or bags.
 
Horned Toad said:
I would say there needs to be a good list of mandatory gear and an inspection before you leave.

I was on a deal here several years ago when a Troop was up in mountains and some snow hit. They were not lost or stranded so I never really got the reason why S&R was called in, but they were. By the time most of the S&R got to the trailhead the Scouts were coming down the trail. Somewhere someone panicked because of the snow I believe, probably a parent.

All the Scout were fine, some were cold and wet but no one needed medical attention. The most disheartening thing was the Scout leader complaining to the S&R guys about how his guys failed to bring the proper gear and it wasn’t his fault etc etc. We all know there are a lot of sub standard parents out there and bottom line if you are the adult taking the kids out then you are responsible.

So I hope your Scoutmaster has all his bases covered but, good on you for getting all the info you can.
Click to expand...

At the Monday meeting I did a thorough (and sometimes scathing) evaluation of their equipment choices and things that they had forgotten, lacked, etc. My recommendations were based for normal cold weather camping---things like more socks, no jeans, extra pair of gloves---but I called them Wednesday night as the meteorology forecasts came together to show this extremely cold weather (for Ohio, I might add). I told them extra things that will make their lives easier.

The only trouble is the lack of funds with some parents. With the economic climate, I'm afraid that some of the parents can't afford the gear needed (even the generic things) that their sons need to stay safe. They don't need the latest and best stuff from the North Face, or a high-end production knife, but they do need functional tools and things to keep them safe. That's why older boys such as myself, who are lucky to not be affected by the economic climate, need to pack extra.
 
If you're in decent tents and you can get a few of you in there then I would keep a lantern going. Not a battery one. If no lantern then a candle or two. You then have one person do 'candle watch'. They basically insure your tent doesn't burn down and in their time awake can get some food cooked. If everyone takes a turn then it means the tent is always getting a little heat put into it and you have the guys watching each other for problems.

Also advise the Scouts to wear their hats in their bags at night and to just get used to their mouths being exposed to the cold. f you are using bivie bags the worst thing you can do is stick your head inside your bag. All the moisture in your breath will freeze on the inside of your bivie bag and when the temp gets back above freezing in the tent the ice melts and it soaks your bag.
 
I'm happen to be in the same area. If you have time with the scouts stress base layers. Also if you toss one of those 30 cent hand warmers in a sleeping bag it makes a big difference. Most importantly keep dry.
 
hot rocks have made the single largest difference for me when winter camping.

use a hand towel or a couple of bandanas, heat up some rocks until they are a little cooler than glowing red, and wrap them up in cloth. take two or three into the sleeping bag with you. even if you don't need them, they are very nice to snuggle up with, and can add alot of comfort to inadequate sleeping gear.

i also second always having a large amount of kindling and small wood on hand to get the fire going if need be, and in the cold morning you don't want to be messing around with gathering kindling and things.

a large communal shelter that can be lighted and heated will be an excellent thing. this way everyone can sit together and play games or do some crafts or just chat about different things.

sounds like you have a pretty good handle on everything, watch your back and i give you props for taking responsibility for these kids, even though you don't (and shouldn't really) have to.
 
Let the kids stay in the lodge if they choose....

Allow them to camp outside if they choose....

Make it mandatory to have atleast 3 per tent and sleep in shifts....

Do not mess around with peoples kids in the severe cold... I hope you are painting the wrong picture of this "Scoutmaster". Not allowing access to lodges is stupid and reckless.

I train in -55deg cold. A month ago I spent a night at a Cub Scouts winter camp in a snowbank shelter in -22 weather. In severe cold you will simply fall asleep and not wake up!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606558

This guy should be beaten with his own shoes.....
 
I was a scout leader and now heavily into venturing. I've taken the scouts to Philmont, Northern Tier, and Scotland; and I've staffed the Wood Badge course.

You're describing pretty cold conditions for scouts that age. I think the adult leaders will have to keep watch at night to be available if someone gets a little too cold. And like others have said, they're also going to have to check the scouts' equipment very closely before leaving - an appropriately rated sleeping bag, hats, gloves, soxs, and enough layers.

A trick I found is to bring an old rug for the tent floor and a wool blanket or two for over my sleeping bag. This assumes you're not backpacking to the campsite, somethng I doubt you'll be doing with 10 year old Weblos.
 
Cold weather! Plan for it-gear up for it-do it. Scoutmaster and other adult leaders are responsible to check all scouts gear before leaving on trip. If the proper gear is not there the boy stays home or the trip is canceled. I hope there are other adults on the trip that can assure common sense is used. Many excellent suggestions by the forum. Best of luck and have fun. 1957 Eagle
 
Outside of the good gear recommendations I would make sure they keep hydrated and tell them to be conscious of how they breathe. In very cold dry weather it is particulary helpful to breathe through your nose as much as possible. Keeps your sinuses warm and moist which helps prevent a cold and sinus problem. It keeps you from respiring as much moisture from your body as well as shocking the lungs with cold dry air. Good luck.
 
steelscout30 said:
The only trouble is the lack of funds with some parents. With the economic climate, I'm afraid that some of the parents can't afford the gear needed (even the generic things) that their sons need to stay safe. They don't need the latest and best stuff from the North Face, or a high-end production knife, but they do need functional tools and things to keep them safe. That's why older boys such as myself, who are lucky to not be affected by the economic climate, need to pack extra.
Click to expand...

This is something I was thinking about too. Sometimes family budgets are stretched pretty thin, and especially so in cases where there are several kids in the family, or a single parent situation. It often comes down to choosing between buying one kid winter gear to go camping with Scouts, or getting ALL the kids proper school supplies. Not always an easy choice.

On top of simply not being able to afford proper gear, many parents may not even know what to get either. These are things that must be taken into account when planning a group trip with many children in the party. It doesn't apply only to winter either. I have seen plenty of kids equipped with nothing more than cheapo woolco vinyl runners on their feet when going on a hike; possibly because mom & dad cannot afford hiking boots. The poor kid ends up in pain, and has a miserable time. Again, as mentioned before, it should be up to the leaders to ensure everyone is properly equipped.

Beyond this, it is also important to remember how kids think. Often a kid might be frozen, but won't say anything for fear of being ridiculed by others. I have even seen a kid piss himself instead of going outside because he was scared to wake up the older kids sleeping near the door of the tent for fear of being bullied or made fun of. So the whole "tough it out kid" attitude has to go, not everyone is born a rough-n-tumble outdoorsman, and when children feel obligated to endure discomfort just to fit in, it becomes dangerous.
 
The REAL Commander said:
I'd like to have a word with this scout master, I think he's got a screw loose! I was a leader for 20 years, and never have I heard of anyone denying the camp goers access to the lodges during a winter camp. This fellow should be dealt with before he causes peoples' kids to get hurt! I am very angry to hear of this, and if it was a Scouts Canada matter, I'd be there like white on rice trying to get this jackass ousted from the ranks! :grumpy:
Click to expand...

I am completely on the side of TRC, Magnussen, and a couple of others. When you, generally speaking, take a bunch of other people's kids on any kind of a trip, you have to err way, way on the side of caution. If you do otherwise, you richly deserve whatever jail time you receive, because I cannot conceive the pain of a parent who loses a child.
 
Usually on winter camps with scouts, the adults get a cabin for themselves and us scouts are in the tents. You won't believe the lengths some kids go to sleep in a cabin. On a trip to Gettysburg, we had a kid leave his tent door open while it was terrential downpours to just sleep in a damn cabin. He was pissed when I cut up trash bags for a ground tarp in his tent. I would make sure they all change before the sleep. Also tell them to put the clothes there going to wear the next day inside their bag so they don't crawl into an ice cold pair of pants. I would tell them if there cold, go to the fire and warm up and drink hot coco or tea to warm them from the inside.
 
ok, no Scout Leader or staff goes out of their way to put children in harms way. The Scoutmaster is doing what EVERY Scoutmaster does during a BASIC winter campout, teasing the Cubs/Scouts that they have to brave the outdoors while the Scoutmaster will be sitting by a roaring fireplace indoors in the Lodge. Just like its been done since Scouts started.

The children will be fine, they will be watched over and checked, there is a big bonfire and hot drinks, and if some of them feel the need to go to the Lodge, you can bet the Lodge will be open to them. No Scoutmaster wants to be sued. Time to stop this "OutSide World bad, Inside World safe panicky parent syndrome" thats sweeping the nation and making our children a bunch of wimps that cant fend for themselves.


SHEESH!

Power to the OP!
 
Feed the kids high fat content food like sausage, nuts, ect. This is high calorie and takes a long time to breakdown. Fed this type of food right before bed it will be digested when the scouts will need it to keep the fire burning at the coldest point in the night.
 
As I would expect, lots of good suggestions.

It is very important, as suggested, -- even critical if the buildings are truly not available, to have a positive/kind/educational shakedown of gear, especially clothing (including footware) and sleeping gear.

Do they have proper clothing for their base, insulation, and outer layers? No cotton.

Do they have extras just in case, especially socks and gloves?

Do they have inches of crush-resistant insulation under them? (1" of
Thermorest is just as good as 1" of other foam that resists crushing.)

Sleeping bag/bags/bag+blankets or quilts thick enough? http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/sleep-system.html
(Thickness of loft shown is for total thickness of the bag, and values assume sufficient crush-resistant insulation under the sleeper.)

Do they have a scarf or other cloth to breath through to warm and moisten to cold dry air - awake or alseep?

Boots are a particular problem, especially trying to force boots on over "extra" socks - crushes the air (insulation) out of the socks and interferes with circulation (warm blood) = cold feet.

Be prepared to kindly tell anyone without proper gear -- if you cannot solve the deficiencies -- that he cannot go.

Buddy system, as suggested, with adult/experienced Scout assigned to several younglings to keep an eye on them.

Lots of hot beverages available at all times.

Adults to bring extra gear. Be Prepared.

Our Troop tents out year-'round. Coldest was -17F (not wind chill). Everyone was fine. But these are Scouts, not Cubs, and we train, inspect, and watch.

(Lots colder when I was a kid in Stoney Plane, Alberta. -40F once. Really cool to spit and watch it bounce on the ground. Cloak Room was almost the size of the classroom.)
 
Ran into town with an assistant Scoutmaster to get some cleaning supplies for the new oven in the lodge...somebody tried to "defrost" their boots.

Things are going smoothly, everyone warm and safe---a few inside the lodge. ;)

Will keep you posted tomorrow after five o'clock ET, when the camp's over. The thermometer reads -18 degrees Fahrenheit before windchill. It's been an interesting night for sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top