Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

[Kallil]

Here’s my take on this after owning multiple 21’s and 25’s. I have a small plain 31 born 10 July of this year. Mine also exhibits lock flex, and it doesn’t bother me at all. If it were a large model that flexed so easily, I would have returned it or asked for repair.
It’s difficult to see how much force is required to cause the lock flex in the video above, but it looks excessive and worth looking into repairing under warranty.

A frame lock requires a lock that flexes. So crk is correct to a large degree when they say this is a feature. You could force any frame lock to flex, to include beefy ones like my strider smf or a hinderer xm18. The small 31 possesses multiple qualities that are going to make this issue seem worse than it is. The lock bar is thin as it is a small knife. The ceramic ball only contacts one portion of the blade, rather than the entire lock face like most frame locks do. This creates a pivot point that makes it easier to flex. To change this would likely require a significant lock bar design change that would negatively impact the design of the knife.

In summary, $375+ is a lot to spend on a knife. At this price point you should be getting whatever you consider to be near perfection. Perhaps crk will lose some customers over this, but personally I consider my small 31 to be a proper representation of crk quality, to include a bank vault lock up.

 

[BD_01]

Here’s my take on this after owning multiple 21’s and 25’s. I have a small plain 31 born 10 July of this year. Mine also exhibits lock flex, and it doesn’t bother me at all. If it were a large model that flexed so easily, I would have returned it or asked for repair.
It’s difficult to see how much force is required to cause the lock flex in the video above, but it looks excessive and worth looking into repairing under warranty.

A frame lock requires a lock that flexes. So crk is correct to a large degree when they say this is a feature. You could force any frame lock to flex, to include beefy ones like my strider smf or a hinderer xm18. The small 31 possesses multiple qualities that are going to make this issue seem worse than it is. The lock bar is thin as it is a small knife. The ceramic ball only contacts one portion of the blade, rather than the entire lock face like most frame locks do. This creates a pivot point that makes it easier to flex. To change this would likely require a significant lock bar design change that would negatively impact the design of the knife.

In summary, $375+ is a lot to spend on a knife. At this price point you should be getting whatever you consider to be near perfection. Perhaps crk will lose some customers over this, but personally I consider my small 31 to be a proper representation of crk quality, to include a bank vault lock up.

Good points.

But then there is the matter of consistency, which Mr. Tim himself extolls as a hallmark of the brand.

Perhaps what’s been expressed in this thread & on the -tube is not reflective of true sample size, but it does, at a minimum, raise an eyebrow.

 

[FL23833]

Maybe they'll go back to the older lock sans ceramic ball, maybe call it Sebenza 2022 or something

Tim has said they went to the ball to reduce the number of 21 warranty repairs. None of us have CRK repair stats. Maybe way more 21s were sent in than Zaans and Inkosis and 21 warranty repairs were costing CRK too much.

 

[Kallil]

Tim has said they went to the ball to reduce the number of 21 warranty repairs. None of us have CRK repair stats. Maybe way more 21s were sent in than Zaans and Inkosis and 21 warranty repairs were costing CRK too much.

Hadn’t considered this. I’ve never owned a zaan (and I’m still a bit unclear on this, but to me it looks like the 25 was just renamed an inkosi as they seem identical to me), but I’ve personally had a 21 with such a worn out lock that they had to replace the blade. On their dime of course. With both the 25 and the 31 I really like the feel that the ball gives to the locking and unlocking transition.

This also makes me wonder if they can simply replace the ceramic ball with a different size if it ever wears, instead of an entire blade.

 

[FL23833]

but to me it looks like the 25 was just renamed an inkosi as they seem identical to me

The 2 differences between 25s and Inkosi are the stop pin and clip angle.

Ceramic balls are so hard I doubt they'll ever wear.

 

[kobold]

Hadn’t considered this. I’ve never owned a zaan (and I’m still a bit unclear on this, but to me it looks like the 25 was just renamed an inkosi as they seem identical to me), but I’ve personally had a 21 with such a worn out lock that they had to replace the blade. On their dime of course. With both the 25 and the 31 I really like the feel that the ball gives to the locking and unlocking transition.

This also makes me wonder if they can simply replace the ceramic ball with a different size if it ever wears, instead of an entire blade.

Correct me if I am wrong - I remember an older CRK video saying they used to peen worn out Ti lock bars. They just used a hand held torch to heat it up. Nothing is stopping them to do the same thing today, ceramic ball or not.

 

[bbk357]

I first heard about this when the 31 came out, just came back to see if it was fixed. I really can’t believe it, those videos of the flex are pretty significant.
My first CRK was an umnumzaan and I was blown away by how perfect it was and especially the lock up. I’ve had multiple inkosi and 21… none have had an issue. I even had a 25 that was pretty much perfect.
I really don’t see a reason to buy a 31 until this is addressed and re-engineered. Maybe the 31 will have a similar life span as the 25?

 

[J.Mattson]

The high bar was set by CRK themselves, by their prices, by what they say, and by the thousands of people who bought their products with zero issues. Basically CRK built their brand on perfection and anything less than that will cause worries among their fans.

Above I said I have four 31's with no flex, however after checking again it seems 1 does. It is absolutely not what has previously been known as lock rock and does seem to be what is described above (the bar flexing ever so slightly). In no way do I think that this causes a safety issue or makes the knife unusable as a tool. Nor will it keep me from using and enjoying the knife. It just does not clear the bar previously set.

Really all I want is some sort of acknowledgement from CRK (outside of private communication some folks have received) about what is happening, what is causing it and what they are doing/have done to mitigate the issue.

I also do think that they have done something as the knife with the flex is the oldest of the 4, and the others are rock solid.

 

[353]

I also do think that they have done something as the knife with the flex is the oldest of the 4, and the others are rock solid.

Can you see a difference in the cutout in the lockbar on your knives?

 

[FL23833]

Really all I want is some sort of acknowledgement from CRK (outside of private communication some folks have received) about what is happening, what is causing it and what they are doing/have done to mitigate the issue.

Tim already has on the Facebook fanpage and said it's normal. The only point of contact between the blade and bar is a sphere. Of course a ball (or whole bar in this case) will roll when it's under load.

 

[kobold]

Tim already has on the Facebook fanpage and said it's normal. The only point of contact between the blade and bar is a sphere. Of course a ball (or whole bar in this case) will roll when it's under load.

There are knives with ceramic balls, that don't 'rock'?

 

[FL23833]

There are knives with ceramic balls, that don't 'rock'?

Name a few with the same lockup I'd like to know. Thx.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Name a few with the same lockup I'd like to know. Thx.

I think he is talking about the Umnumzaan and the Inkosi’s. No where even close to the rock in a 31.
But I’m just guessing.

 

[kobold]

Name a few with the same lockup I'd like to know. Thx.

Yes, I meant the Umnumzaan and the Inkosi.

 

[FL23833]

Yes, I meant the Umnumzaan and the Inkosi.

I have 2 of each and they all flex about the same as my 31s (which isn't much).

 

[kobold]

I have 2 of each and they all flex about the same as my 31s (which isn't much).

My Inkosi is rock solid. And I like it that way.

 

[Dadpool]

As one more data point, my large 31 has scale code A-21 (so first quarter of this year, right?), a birth date in June 2021, the repositioned lockbar relief cutouts (not overlapping the locating hole), and is rock-solid with no play in any direction.

This thread was helpful in making the decision to pick up a 31, especially as things progressed and more info about date codes and changes to the model started to circulate. Thank you!

 

[brownshoe]

The high bar was set by CRK themselves, by their prices, by what they say, and by the thousands of people who bought their products with zero issues. Basically CRK built their brand on perfection and anything less than that will cause worries among their fans.

Above I said I have four 31's with no flex, however after checking again it seems 1 does. It is absolutely not what has previously been known as lock rock and does seem to be what is described above (the bar flexing ever so slightly). In no way do I think that this causes a safety issue or makes the knife unusable as a tool. Nor will it keep me from using and enjoying the knife. It just does not clear the bar previously set.

Really all I want is some sort of acknowledgement from CRK (outside of private communication some folks have received) about what is happening, what is causing it and what they are doing/have done to mitigate the issue.

I also do think that they have done something as the knife with the flex is the oldest of the 4, and the others are rock solid.

CRK no longer communicates as they used to. They haven't moderated this forum in years. Chris Reeve's last post was 1/9/2012. Chris is gone, it's not run by a cutler/machinist anymore. Not sure what the Ann/Tim show are, but I have yet to see their custom knives that they made while learning their skils. At least Harsey helps them out

 

[BeaverTail_Hunter]

One could argue that FB and IG are simply better platforms to use these days for social media interaction. They participate on those platforms. As far as actual communication goes, they are one of the few companies that I buy from that I can actually call, right now, I get either Tim or Anne on the phone and talk to if needed. I've always thought that was pretty good customer service.

 

[brownshoe]

One could argue that FB and IG are simply better platforms to use these days for social media interaction. They participate on those platforms. As far as actual communication goes, they are one of the few companies that I buy from that I can actually call, right now, I get either Tim or Anne on the phone and talk to if needed. I've always thought that was pretty good customer service.

FB and IG is more contolled thus you get the Ann&Tim show, that's why they left Bladeforums. Ann&Tim never answered my call or email, but customer service did.