Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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Here is the full review, she is pretty satisfied with the knife, the S45VN is very nice, the only complaints is on the clip and off course the "lock-rock".

This girl uses her knives pretty hard and its allways cool to see a gal in this crazy hobby.

 
Has anyone else had the pocket clip issue she describes? I'm trying to decide between the small sebenza and the small inkosi. Based on specs, I'd prefer the sebenza but not at the cost of clip stick.
 
Modernflame said:
Has anyone else had the pocket clip issue she describes? I'm trying to decide between the small sebenza and the small inkosi. Based on specs, I'd prefer the sebenza but not at the cost of clip stick.
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Mine is new and I haven't used it much yet so I'll let others speak to long-turn clip behavior. But I can't figure out how she's holding the knife that she puts that kind of pressure on the clip. Any grip I would reasonably use puts pressure on the back of the knife itself, not the clip.
 
matto6 said:
Mine is new and I haven't used it much yet so I'll let others speak to long-turn clip behavior. But I can't figure out how she's holding the knife that she puts that kind of pressure on the clip. Any grip I would reasonably use puts pressure on the back of the knife itself, not the clip.
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Clip on my small 31 doesn’t budge. I’m sure it could be forced but don’t have the slightest concern that this could ever happen unintentionally
 
No clip issues on my small 31.. it's in the box.

But I did put it on last night and I couldn't replicate what she was depicting.
 
Thanks, fellas. I decided to take a risk and order the small 31. This will be my third 31, which is 93. Hoping that's a lucky number!
 
I've been exceedingly pleased with my small 31. Far more so than the 21 I had. I tried to like it, but it just didn't do it for me. I must admit to having had reservations when I first saw this thread after having placed my order with CRK, I have found no issues with mine at all.
 
Wild Willie said:
I've been exceedingly pleased with my small 31. Far more so than the 21 I had. I tried to like it, but it just didn't do it for me. I must admit to having had reservations when I first saw this thread after having placed my order with CRK, I have found no issues with mine at all.
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Why do you like it more than the 21?

I've also decided that I really like my small 31, despite the vertical play. I love everything else about it, and if I hadn't done that test because I read about it on the forums, I would have never known it would do that. I've decided to never do that again, stick my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. If it ever becomes an issue during real use, I may change my mind and sell the knife. But until then, I'm just going to enjoy it.
 
Modernflame said:
If I may ask, what was it about your 21 that didn't pass muster?
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matto6 said:
Why do you like it more than the 21?

I've also decided that I really like my small 31, despite the vertical play. I love everything else about it, and if I hadn't done that test because I read about it on the forums, I would have never known it would do that. I've decided to never do that again, stick my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. If it ever becomes an issue during real use, I may change my mind and sell the knife. But until then, I'm just going to enjoy it.
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It had nothing to do with the function of the knife...
Part of it was my current 31 is a plain Jane, while the 21 had micarta inserts. It didn't add a lot of thickness, but enough that I noticed it in my pocket far more than the 31. I removed the clips on both and put in a filler tab. Additionally I quite honestly prefer the lack of the hole in the handle slab on the 31, and it probably has more to do with the fact that it gets carried more, but I like the action on the 31 better too. The 21 was a fine knife, I guess it's more the "intangibles" that I prefer. Such things that fuel the endless debate between Chevrolet and Ford, Stihl and Husqvarna, or Folgers and Maxwell House that make life interesting and keep people employed in advertising...
 
Just received my first Small 31. It was sold to me as not having lock rock... AAAANNNND it totally has lock rock/flex. I'm still on the fence about whether or not it is going to bother me. I do miss the double "click" from the detent/lock design of the 21 (Sebkosi, has that been said yet?). Looking forward to knowing the response you receive, M matto6 - I don't want to send the knife in to the shop for them to just send it back to me and tell me it is normal.
 
traumkommode said:
Just received my first Small 31. It was sold to me as not having lock rock... AAAANNNND it totally has lock rock/flex.
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Bummer. Just curious about the birth date of that sebenza? And would you mind saying more about the severity of the lock rock? And do you have another 31 to compare it to?
 
Modernflame said:
Bummer. Just curious about the birth date of that sebenza? And would you mind saying more about the severity of the lock rock? And do you have another 31 to compare it to?
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It's recent, Sept. 28, 2021. S45VN blade (which has probably the best factory edge I've ever seen from CRK, btw). Also has this clip slipping down issue. The flex is palpable and visible, I can feel the lockbar flexing at the same time. Maybe not quite as much as matto6's video depicts, but close. The rest of the knife feels like a CRK, but the lockup could hardly be called "bank vault". Doubt I'd notice it in use, but still. This ain't a $170 Spyderco or Benchmade.
 
traumkommode said:
Looking forward to knowing the response you receive, @matto6 - I don't want to send the knife in to the shop for them to just send it back to me and tell me it is normal.
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I got a reply from their customer service, as well as a message from Tim offering to call him to discuss if I would like. I took him up on it and we talked for 30 minutes.

I don't want to put words in Tim's mouth so I won't try to repeat the whole conversation, but I assume he wouldn't mind me passing on the key points, which they'll tell you themselves if you email them the question like I did:

  • The bottom line is that the lock flex is inherent in the design and cannot be removed.
  • This is not specific to the 31. All frame locks have some amount of lock flex, including the 21. It is just the most noticible on the small 31 because of the size and geometry of the lock area.
  • The 31 lock with ball is stronger (withstands more force before failure) and lasts longer (before wear causes lockup to hit 100%) than the 21. (FYI, he also talks about the 31 being stronger than the 21 in this Facebook video 9:33-10:45 minutes in. https://www.facebook.com/groups/266693080142233/permalink/1884108625067329/)
  • This is why they moved the whole lineup to this lock design, despite the increased lock flex.

My take: the small 31 lock flex does seem excessive to me. However, if it truly is a stronger lock that lasts longer, it's not necessarily an unreasonable tradeoff given that the lock flex doesn't impact my use of the knife at all.

Is it possible to design a lock that is equally strong and has no flex? I dunno, I don't design or test knives. Would I judge anyone for saying "I don't want a flexy knife" and buying a different one instead? Nope, totally fair response. But overall I really like the knife so I'm going to ignore the flex (ie, stop poking at it) and enjoy the knife for what it is.
 
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I appreciate your passing the word along. I want to be in love with the knife, and I don't want to go back to a 21. Sounds like I can use the knife and enjoy it. I just wish Ford would spill the proverbial beans similarly about the Coyote rattle...
 
matto6 said:
The 31 lock with ball is stronger (withstands more force before failure) and lasts longer
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I returned a 31 earlier this year and went back to the 21 because of Lock Rock. I appreciate the character of Mr. Reeves in taking the time to address this to you. As a fellow knife enthusiast, many of us are under the impression that a tight lockup with no blade movement is a sign of quality. Failure of the lock on the 31 wasn't a concern for my utility carry purposes. The issue at hand was wanting to know I was getting typical CRK quality in the new model. The effect of greater strength despite blade movement is something I hope to see from the knife community in consideration of another 31 purchase. I am sure there are many coming from CRK I will be wanting.
 
I received my small 31 today. It definitely has the lock rock issue, which is absent in both my large 31s. I suppose the more nuanced truth is that, as stated above, all frame locks have some degree of lock flex, but the larges have very little and the small has quite a lot more.

Most of us were trained since boyhood to apply only opening forces to a folding knife, never closing forces. It is unnatural to press onto the spine of the knife, so I may never have noticed this problem without this thread shining a spotlight on it. With that said, it is common to grasp a knife in a hammer grip and make a cut with one's thumb on the spine. In this grip, we do place some closing force onto the blade, but only a little. When cutting, this closing force is more than offset by the opposing force of the material against the blade. Perhaps a palm smash on the spine is not the ideal test. Maybe it's more realistic to only press with the thumb in a hammer grip?

Can I induce lock flex on my other frame locks this way? No, not really. Can I induce movement on the small 31 this way? Yes, most definitely. One other item of note is that the small knife's pocket clip, when compared to its big brothers', occupies less real estate on the frame of the knife. More of it overhangs the lock bar. This may account for the clip slip issue.

Lock rock and clip slip on the same knife? I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. Otherwise, the knife is beautiful.
 
Update. I feel like a moron pressing the spine of this knife. I've stopped doing it and it's liberating. This is a hard working tool with an exceptionally long service life. I'm proud to own it.

These are my subjective thought processes and are not intended to challenge anyone else's impressions of the 31.
 
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