Sebenza (huge) blade play

johnnytoxin said:
Yup the Umnumzaan and the Sebenza 25 were Chris’ designs for sure, possibly the Inkosi as well. You can force flex into all of these knives. The issue with the 31 is that it requires much less force to get it to flex.
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It seems that this may be the issue mostly with the 31 small. That simply is not the case with my example of a 31 large at least. Again, no dog in this fight for me, I stated earlier that even though I own a 31 I give preference to the 21 as well as Chris being in charge, but my large 31 is every bit as solid in this regard as my Inkosi (if not slightly more than). In fact, though I refuse to apply any strong force to this "test", when I try it with just a small amount of pressure it is apparent that my Inkosi is slightly more prone to this "rock" than my 31. I don't really care about this argument or the hype surrounding it, I'll gladly defer to those with more knowledge than I who say that the 31 is inferior, and I'm not a 31 cheerleader; just sharing my factual experience with the two knives I have sitting in front of me🤷‍♂️.
 
Knives&Lint said:
It seems that this may be the issue mostly with the 31 small. That simply is not the case with my example of a 31 large at least. Again, no dog in this fight for me, I stated earlier that even though I own a 31 I give preference to the 21 as well as Chris being in charge, but my large 31 is every bit as solid in this regard as my Inkosi (if not slightly more than). In fact, though I refuse to apply any strong force to this "test", when I try it with just a small amount of pressure it is apparent that my Inkosi is slightly more prone to this "rock" than my 31. I don't really care about this argument or the hype surrounding it, I'll gladly defer to those with more knowledge than I who say that the 31 is inferior, and I'm not a 31 cheerleader; just sharing my factual experience with the two knives I have sitting in front of me🤷‍♂️.
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We are on the same page. I know the large 31 seems to be much better now that they moved the lock bar cut out. Heck I could even flex the 21 I used to have. Just takes more force. Hopefully they will get the small worked out soon.
 
This issue, like many of the non-issues that enthusiasts come up with, has always just seemed like it was spurred from knife newbies who do little more than opening boxes and cry about a knife not being made with the flavor of the week super steel. They watch one too many cold steel marketing infomercial videos and think they know everything about knife locking mechanisms. There are innumerable weird or alarming things a knife will do if you force it in a way it wasn’t designed to. I’m waiting for the video where someone tests the lateral downward force on a blade and laments about the inferior properties of the knife.
 
From what I can tell the issue is more about the ceramic ball than the flex. Does more flex really translate to a weaker lock under normal conditions? Has anyone done any tests comparing the 21 vs. the 31 in lock strength? I'd love to see like how Benchmade does on some of their tests. After owning both, I personally prefer the 31 only for ergonomic reasons, however the 21 gave me more peace of mind due to a larger area of titanium on steel vs. steel on a ceramic ball. Perhaps if the ball was large jawbreaker size but a ball rolls across any surface last I checked. My guess is Chris Reeve put a patent on the ball design thus no other companies can use it but maybe this isn't the only reason most high end and custom even go with a no-ball flat metal on metal design for their frame locks. For example on a Medford FF, it is S35VN on titanium. The darn thing is as solid as a tank and it gives you the impression you could trust your life with it. I haven't had this feeling on any of my beloved Chris Reeves - Umnumzaan, Inkosi, 31. Yes the ceramic ball is smoother and awesomely innovative but kind of feels like Chris Reeve was aiming towards the feeling of bearings when all they really had to do was incorporate something like Hinderer's Tri-way. As a result, though smoother, we're possibly left with a less strong lock and albeit knife? Maybe the flex is an indication of this, maybe it isn't but I'd lean toward el primero.

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In my experience, the 31 is not as good as the older 21, 25 or Zaan. I love the pocket clip on the lock bar. It adds more pressure to the lock bar, eliminating any kind of lock slippage during normal use. The 31 killed that. The ceramic ball interface in my 25 is as solid as a rock and smooth as butter.
 
When the 31s first came out, remember CRK cutting a groove in the tang of the blade, so the ceramic ball could ride in that groove? Well, that created all kinds of lock issues, so they stopped cutting that groove. I probably won’t ever buy another current model CRK. I cherish my 25 and 21 Insingo though.
 
I do not seem to have any issues with my regular, 21, 25 or 31both small and large Sebenzas
 
Gilbert G said:
Has anyone done any tests comparing the 21 vs. the 31 in lock strength?
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Tim Reeve did. In his testing the carburized lock face of the 21 broke and the lock slipped. When testing the 31 the blade broke before the lock failed. Here is the interview where he discusses it. Im definitely not a fan of the host but the interview is full of great info.
Gilbert G said:
The darn thing is as solid as a tank and it gives you the impression you could trust your life with it.
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I never understood this phrase. Why would anyone trust their life to an inanimate object?
Gilbert G said:
Yes the ceramic ball is smoother and awesomely innovative but kind of feels like Chris Reeve was aiming towards the feeling of bearings when all they really had to do was incorporate something like Hinderer's Tri-way.
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The idea behind it was a stronger lock with a longer life span without using extra parts. A simple and more elegant solution. Bearings had nothing to do with it.
 
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RousingRabbles said:
This issue, like many of the non-issues that enthusiasts come up with, has always just seemed like it was spurred from knife newbies who do little more than opening boxes and cry about a knife not being made with the flavor of the week super steel. They watch one too many cold steel marketing infomercial videos and think they know everything about knife locking mechanisms. There are innumerable weird or alarming things a knife will do if you force it in a way it wasn’t designed to. I’m waiting for the video where someone tests the lateral downward force on a blade and laments about the inferior properties of the knife.
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The issue originated bacause some 31s were actually flawed, where holding the knife in a normal grip wth your thumb on the spine you could wiggle the blade up and down. Once reports of that came out everyone tried looking for flex where there wasn't any... and here we are today with ridiculous tests.

91bravo said:
In my experience, the 31 is not as good as the older 21, 25 or Zaan. I love the pocket clip on the lock bar. It adds more pressure to the lock bar, eliminating any kind of lock slippage during normal use. The 31 killed that. The ceramic ball interface in my 25 is as solid as a rock and smooth as butter.
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This makes no sense. The pocket clip tension isn't very much and with the lack of leverage it has, esecially on the large, there's no way it has a sigificant effect on lockup. Also, a properly designed framelock doesn't need a lot of lockbar pressure to function properly. Also, the 31 lockbar (when it does have an issue) doesn't even bend outward, it bends vertically, so more pressure on the lockbar wouldn't make a difference. Also, some people choose to remove the clips from their knives, so why would CRK make the clip necessary for the lock to work properly?
 
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Random Dan said:
The issue originated bacause some 31s were actually flawed, where holding the knife in a normal grip wth your thumb on the spine you could wiggle the blade up and down. Once reports of that came out everyone tried looking for flex where there wasn't any... and here we are today with ridiculous tests.


This makes no sense. The pocket clip tension isn't very much and with the lack of leverage it has, esecially on the large, there's no way it has a sigificant effect on lockup. Also, a properly designed framelock doesn't need a lot of lockbar pressure to function properly. Also, the 31 lockbar (when it does have an issue) doesn't even bend outward, it bends vertically, so more pressure on the lockbar wouldn't make a difference. Also, some people choose to remove the clips from their knives, so why would CRK make the clip necessary for the lock to work properly?
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You don't own a 21 or a 25 do you? That's why it makes no sense to you. It doesn't have to have the clip to work properly, but the clip DOES add a little more pressure to the lockbar. Once again, I said this was MY experience, not yours.
 
91bravo said:
You don't own a 21 or a 25 do you? That's why it makes no sense to you. It doesn't have to have the clip to work properly, but the clip DOES add a little more pressure to the lockbar. Once again, I said this was MY experience, not yours.
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Had a 21 and 31 but sold both. I prefer the inkosi, which by the way, has a ceramic ball, no clip on the lockbar, and locks up just fine.
 
91bravo said:
You don't own a 21 or a 25 do you? That's why it makes no sense to you. It doesn't have to have the clip to work properly, but the clip DOES add a little more pressure to the lockbar. Once again, I said this was MY experience, not yours.
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Like I said I own a regular, a 21, a 25, a 31 and an Inoski, I have no issues with any of them. I do not think they feel the need to return to the 21 since the 31s are sold out all the time
 
Landshark99 said:
Like I said I own a regular, a 21, a 25, a 31 and an Inoski, I have no issues with any of them. I do not think they feel the need to return to the 21 since the 31s are sold out all the time
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I don't have any issues with mine either. Nobody was talking to you anyway.
 
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