Sebenza Overrated?

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I have seen many post on the Sebenza and just stayed out of the mix, but I like the way the OP stated the question, so I guess I will give my answer.

I have a Sebenza that now sits on my shelf, along with a lot of other knives that just sit there. I bought my small sebenza about 6 years ago and carried it as my one and only EDC for almost 3 years straight. Needless to say I definitely gave it some serious use. I liked a lot of things about it but to me it was not the end all be all knife. I had several problems with the pocket clip and roughed up the tip a little. The company quickly fixed my pocket clip and I can say for a fact that they have excellent customer service. The quality of the knife was excellent and it still locks up perfect. I guess to be honest I just wanted a little beefier knife and also wanted to try other knives out. As an owner who used it and beat the hell out of it, I can not complain about it. The truth is I probably just have bad taste in knives. I currently carry a Benchmade MPR and love it, but no one else seems to. I can tell you I have no regrets about buying my Sebenza. If I had not purchased it 6 years ago, I would still be looking on the forum wandering if it is the perfect knife for me.

Whitty
 
Larry Turko said:
When I first read the many posts praising the Sebenza to the heavens, I clicked on to the CR site and was struck by... how ordinary and sedate the knife really looks.
I don't question that it's well made but aesthically, it's definitely not worth the cost to me. The most recent Tactical Knives magazine has an ad on the last page for Darryl Ralph folders for about the same price as the Sebenza. If I were to give myself permission to spend about 400 bucks on one folder, I'd go for the much more exciting and ,yes, badass looking Darryl Ralphs.
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I own a Darrel Ralph custom that cost a couple hundred more than any of my CRKs. While the DDR's look their price, the CRKs feel their price. I find that my CRKs all have better fit and finish than my DDR. I still love my DDR though.
 
KnifeKnut66 said:
It's not about the looks, it's about the fit and function..
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No, for Larry it obviously IS about the looks. And that's cool; we all have different reasons for liking knives. Blanket statements don't really help much.

KnifeKnut66 said:
Hold one, use one, and I challenge you to say it's not worth the money..........
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I have, and it isn't... to me. For me, the increase in performance between a good $120 (say, BM 710) and $370 (Sebenza) isn't nearly large enough to justify the increase in cost.

Subjectivity and all...
 
Larry Turko said:
When I first read the many posts praising the Sebenza to the heavens, I clicked on to the CR site and was struck by... how ordinary and sedate the knife really looks.
I don't question that it's well made but aesthically, it's definitely not worth the cost to me. The most recent Tactical Knives magazine has an ad on the last page for Darryl Ralph folders for about the same price as the Sebenza. If I were to give myself permission to spend about 400 bucks on one folder, I'd go for the much more exciting and ,yes, badass looking Darryl Ralphs.
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I don't mean to single you out, I just find that your post sums up a lot of a certain aesthetic sentiment. In other words, this response isn't aimed at you in particular, just at the ideas in general.

If we were to be truly honest with ourselves, there are only two properties of a knife with which we can concern ourselves: the function of the knife, and the aesthetics of the knife. We can only truly want one of these.

The function of a knife is to cut, so for the followers of the property of function, the aesthetics of the knife are a moot point. As an analogy (bear in mind that all analogies are by their nature imperfect) I will use Spyderco. The general "spirit" of Spyderco seems to be to make knives that function well, to the detriment of their aesthetics. Of course, there are many who like the aesthetics of a Spyderco knife--but that would seem to be merely a by-product of the knife's intended purpose. In aesthetics (the study or concept of art or the meaning of art) it is usually argued that only that which is intended to be art can be judged aesthetically, and that only that which has no purpose other than to be art can be aesthetic. In essence, what I'm attempting to argue is this: that a knife that is designed with function as the sole property will likely be less aesthetically pleasing than other knives.

On the other hand, a knife purely with aesthetics in mind will have its function degraded. A knife, made of pure gold with arabesque engravings, we could say would be a knife of pure aesthetics. But it would not function well as a knife. The purpose of the knife would be art, rather than as a means to an end (purpose or intent of function).

One could argue that we can never truly move to either extreme: and I would agree. Spyderco knives have a certain aesthetic appeal, and even a pure gold knife could cut butter (oh the abyss of speculative reason).

But my argument, here, is that the majority of people want a knife that has some kind of compromise between these two extremes of properties. A "good" knife must be a hybrid of these two ideals. There are some who prefer a knife to be more aesthetic than functional (badass for example) and those who want the knife to be more functional than aesthetic (utilitarian or plain for example). The "badassness" attributed to a knife comes purely from aesthetics, I really doubt that a "badass" knife would perform any better than a "(opposite of badass)" knife.

The Sebenza has a very distinct aesthetic--that of simplicity and elegance. Why else is there the blue anodization (yes, some are gold or silver) on the thumbstud and rear spacer? There is an aesthetic of plainness to which the Sebenza is attempting to adhere. Which is why, in my opinion, there is so much uproar over the recent "Idaho Made" addition to the Sebenza: it interferes with the aesthetic which has been developed over 20+ years. The Umnumzaan has been called ugly, and even sometimes "badass", but I think that its aesthetics are merely a by-product of its function.

So, I ask, which do you prefer? That a knife be more aesthetic than functional, or more functional than aesthetic?
 
darthsoaker said:
No, for Larry it obviously IS about the looks. And that's cool; we all have different reasons for liking knives. Blanket statements don't really help much.



I have, and it isn't... to me. For me, the increase in performance between a good $120 (say, BM 710) and $370 (Sebenza) isn't nearly large enough to justify the increase in cost.

Subjectivity and all...
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IMHO for the kind of money we are talking about the knife in question should perform flawlessly evey time it is used. The Sebenza does without fail.
 
I've owned all kinds of knives, customs and productions but I've never owned a Seb for these reasons: 1) Even the large is a bit small for my tastes and 2) S30V is a good steel but I feel its had its day. 3) I find it a bit bland.

However, that said that Raindrop Damascus one is extremely nice looking. :thumbup: :p
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat said:
CRKs are not for the person just looking to cut, but for the person who wants to appreciate craftsmanship, function, tight tolerances, and simplicity at it's best.
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I'm the person just looking to cut, so I carry a Benchmade Axis Lock 99.9% of the time.

Why, when I own a Small Regular Seb, do I have a 556 Mini Grip in my pocket right now?

Practicality.
 
I have two problems with the Sebenza...

Handle is too small for me and it's S30V...

Other than that it's fine.
 
Like my Lexus the quality is 100%.Quality has a costs of course.I had 12 of them but because they are difficult to get to here in Belgium most of them are now with my friends who like them a lot.I like the plain and very simple design, the perfect finish and the reliability.Of course it's not the best knife, there is no "best" knife.( only my best wife;) )
 
I still can't help but see the Sebenza as anything but over-rated. I've never actually held one, which I mention because I often hear the statement, "Oh, you've just got to actually experience one to appreciate it." However, I'm fairly sure that if one of you mailed me your Sebenza and I handled it, I wouldn't appreciate it at all; I would wonder why you paid so much for it. It's a different story when you've already put down cold hard cash on it though and you're looking for ways to convince other people that it's worth it. So why not make a big deal about the "quality" of the craftsmanship, the tolerances, the "art" and the attention to detail that goes into it? It doesn't convince me when most of the time we're talking about things that are already done extremely well on high-end production knives, and for prices more in the $200-$300 range. Simply put, the level of contrast in the quality of Kershaw, Spyderco and Benchmade knives and what I've heard of CRK does not sound nearly high enough to justify the contrast between spending $200-$300 on a knife and spending $400-$600 on a knife.

I mean, one thing I often hear about are the tolerances. Benchmade and Spyderco already machine their parts to .0005" tolerances. What does CRK machine to, and is that really worth that amount of money? No one here can even perceive that difference in tolerance without very precise measuring equipment anyway, so i don't know how someone could claim to "appreciate" it when they probably couldn't even measure it.

Attention to detail overall is different from just tolerances though, as is the fit of everything, but honestly I think that the price you're willing to pay for such a thing is highly subjective. I mean, the idea that a Sebenza is worth $400 because it has real tight fit and no sharp edges is baffling to me when I could probably go find a knife of similar materials and very high craftsmanship for $250ish.

I mean, I just don't really see how the difference in craftsmanship can be worth that price difference when you actually consider palpable things. Tigther fits, tighter tolerances, "round edges" might sound worth it to some, but to me I don't see how that price can be justified, and that's where subjectivity really comes into play. Speaking from an objective standpoint though, I really don't see how you could say the Sebenza's quality of craftsmanship is at the same level of contrast as the price between most of the knives out there to compare it to without justifying the price with something like "appreciation for the art and craftsmanship"] put into it", instead of something that is tangible, that you could actually go and measure.

I mean, I like the scotch analogy. I like "The Glenevit" because it's a great tasting single-malt scotch, but it's only $40 a 5th. There are many scotches that cost $100-$150 that I've tried, but they only taste a little bit better to me. Of course the people that actually bought the bottle contend that, "Yes, but the level of detail and craft they put into making it is worth it," but to me it really isn't. Obviously it was to them, since they're the ones that put the money down on it, but to me I just don't see the point in paying $110 for "level of detail" or "craft" when for $40 I get the same basic high-standard of quality, but scaled back in certain areas for production sake. At the end of the day, both scotches taste great, they both get me drunk, and they are both very well made. So why is it that I should pay $110 more for something other than Glenlevit? Am I supposed to care about, "Well, their temperature tolerances for distilling are much tighter," when they're both terrific products? Bottom line is that I think paying that $110 is paying for the brand name and paying for the idea of quality versus an actual higher level of quality that can be measured.

Either way, I could be totally wrong, and I could be totally blown away by a Sebenza's quality, but at the end of the day even if it was totally perfect it's not worth that kind of price to me. Even if I could have a totally personalized, totally customized knife for that price I would be hesitant; I certainly cannot see paying for a production knife at that kind of price.
 
I owned a Umnumzaan once for about 5 min., It was just too small and I was way underwhelmed for 400 bucks. The knife was not very sharp out of the box, plus it just didn't seem like 400 dollars worth to me. Maybe I missed something, but I had bad buyer's remorse, so it was returned. I really wanted to like it, too. But, in hand it did nothing for me at the price it cost.
 
sambo. said:
however, in all seriousness, is there anything you can cut with a Sebenza that you can't cut with an Opinel, a SAK or a Leatherman?
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You can get to the store in a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva...but it's a lot more fun in a Bentley or Lamborghini.
 
A Sebenza is like an Omega Seamaster Chronometer. Superb function along with refined elegance.
Worth the $? Both have been for me.
 
I have not owned one, but after reading all the hype on here, I went to a local knife shop that keeps a few versions in stock.
I was somewhat disappointed when I actually held one. Not that I could find anything wrong with it, it was smooth, locked up solidly and was nicely finished.
As far as being a knife that has very tight tolerances, there aren't that many parts on the knife, so it really shouldn't be that difficult to make them fit correctly.... Especially with the current CNC machinery.

I'm not knocking the knife in anyway, but I have to think a lot of the hype is mental. I still wouldn't mind owning one, and someday I might, just to give it a fair shake, but not a new one at full price.

I guess I have a hard time when I have had numerous Buck 110's and 112's that were tight, smooth and locked up very solidly, and were bought for around 40 bucks a piece. Granted, the Bucks don't have the modern, sleek design, or upgraded steel like the Sebbie, although you can order one from the custom shop with the same S30V steel for around 125.00 IIRC.

Its a very personal thing, but the one knife I fell in love with the first time I held it was a Buck 112. Go figure :D It felt like it was made just for my hands, and is without a doubt, the most comfortable knife I have ever owned.
Like CRK, Buck also has outstanding customer service too.
 
Yes, a Sebenza is like a Seamaster. Well made, but not the most practical tool for day-to-day use.

My Seamaster is lying wound down on my bedside table. My Sebenza is sat in a drawer.

I like to know the correct time and find alarms, a count down timer and stopwatch useful, so I'm wearing a radio controlled Casio G-Shock.

I like to quickly open, use and close a folding knife, so I'm carrying an Axis Lock Benchmade.
 
Thrustus said:
I've been resisting the urge to buy a Sebenza for years, nearly pulled the trigger on a Umnumzaan. On the forums here they seem to be the number 1 folder choice. I don't want to hear from the million fans telling me why ther'ye the best but rather from the minority that think ther'ye a bit overrated. Even though I've never handled one, and read all the time about the wonderful fit and finish they look a bit homely to me like a couple of other all time favourites AK47's and Lexus cars. Anyone out there have similar opinions or do I need to be crucified?
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You will find many negative opinions about most things. If you want to form your own valid opinion buy one and make up your own mind. You can always resell it very easily.
The Sebbie is an exceptional knife but at the price, not for everyone.
However you cannot form a valid opinion until you at least see one and handle one yourself.

sambo. said:
i'm one of the few who think they are overrated.
however, in all seriousness, is there anything you can cut with a Sebenza that you can't cut with an Opinel, a SAK or a Leatherman?
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If cutting and utility are your only criteria for buying a knife then the Sebenza will never be for you.
I could catch the bus to work but I would rather drive myself in a Maserati....

KennyB said:
I still can't help but see the Sebenza as anything but over-rated. I've never actually held one, which I mention because I often hear the statement, "Oh, you've just got to actually experience one to appreciate it." However, I'm fairly sure that if one of you mailed me your Sebenza and I handled it, I wouldn't appreciate it at all
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How on earth you can make that statement or an informed decision having never ever seen or handled one is beyond me.........:confused:

jill jackson said:
I owned a Umnumzaan once for about 5 min., It was just too small and I was way underwhelmed for 400 bucks. The knife was not very sharp out of the box, plus it just didn't seem like 400 dollars worth to me. Maybe I missed something, but I had bad buyer's remorse, so it was returned. I really wanted to like it, too. But, in hand it did nothing for me at the price it cost.
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Good for you Jill for trying it out and making an informed honest decision.
You know now beyond a shadow of doubt that the knife is not your cup of tea and you moved on.

To have a negative opinion about a knife you have never even seen or handled........That's just wrong
 
The Sebenza is one of the finest folders ever designed. You will either love it or it won't be your ideal knife.
 
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