Sebenza slip joint

After reading what has preceded and with hopes that my additional mass shall not overpower the buoyancy of the carrier, I believe I'll step gingerly aboard the S.S. Victorinox for a continuing voyage of all around satisfaction!:cool:


Larry S.
 
You'll wish you had a traditional Large Stockman or Canoe in Carbon before it's all said and done, I used to carry SAKS too, and while I DO like them, I don't carry one anymore. Weak blades, useless tools and poor edge holding, Soldier Model is pick of that litter, and a VERY good knife, but still can't hang with Case CV, or probably Queen D2 (I'll let you guys know soon). Truth is no matter how many knives I buy my large stockman CV ALWAYS finds it's way back into my pocket, mainly BC the only CV Canoe I have has a lot of sentimental value attached and I don't want to carry it, so I see a Queen Canoe in my future, and if I LIKE it, it will probably be followed by a KING RANCH, it's actually a CATTLE KING, I believe King Ranch was a Schrade knife name (did I mention I like BIG stockmans) :)

I know I edited this but I didn't change much :D
 
Well, Im not sure where anybody gets the idea that a SAK has poor edge holding and useless tools, but to each their own I guess. However, after thinking for a while, I just dont think its possible to make any type of comparison as far as Sebenza vs slip-joints go. Just too different. I know what you are asking, still its just a bad analogy.

If you want a slip-joint, then it comes down to traditional (stockman, trapper and so on) or tool type knives like the SAK or scout knives from various companies. Personally I like both. I find SAKs very useful and the tools work quite well for light to medium duty tasks. Like any tool knife or multi-tool however, they mainly fill the role of "great for when 'real' tools are not available.' A Craftsman screwdriver is going to be stronger than any SAK or Leatherman type tool any day.

If I want to carry a trapper or stockman or sod-buster, but think I might want to have the scewdrivers that I would normally have with an SAK, I carry a Swiss-Tech-Plus on my keyring. Plenty of good slip-joints are out there. The Case with the CV blades are a good choice if you are prepared to maintain them. The stainless ones are ok as well, you trade edge holding for less care.

Buck and Camillus also make nice ones. Schrade is no more, but there are still knives to be found. I have never had a Queen, but most seem to speak highly of them. Dont expect fit and finish or durability of a Sebenza out of them, but if used properly and cared for they will do just fine.
 
One thing about a nice large stockman is that you get over 10 inches of edge in a 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 inch handle. Hard to get that kind of ratio in any other knife but a Congress :D. I think you will enjoy your queen in D2. I had a couple here for a little while. One went in a pass around. One went to V.G.'s auction. Walk and talk was not consistant (not too bad either), but I have used and carried enough Queen D2 to enjoy them. As would be expected it takes a little longer to get them sharp. I also like to repfile the edge taking off that shoulder to a near 0 bevel.
 
sak_collector said:
Well, Im not sure where anybody gets the idea that a SAK has poor edge holding and useless tools, but to each their own I guess. ...
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I wouldn't say useless tools, I usually have one on me or nearby.

For a knife blade though, D2 is just far superior if done with the same geometry. Take a SAK farmer and a Queen D2 Canoe main blade (almost the same size, the queen is a bit thicker). Sharpen them exactly the same way, then put them through cardboard boxes. They will perform the same because of the way you sharpened them (mine do), BUT the D2 will go much farther.

Materials do matter. SAKs are definitely contenders in value, but a good Queen D2 will destroy the SAK as a cutting instrument.
 
penknife2.JPG

Pic by Hellz

:D
 
Carlos said:
penknife2.JPG

Pic by Hellz

:D
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Very true Carlos, I was thinking purely 'traditional' of which this (UKPK), is not. But the original poster did not say that, so I guess you win! ;)

P.S. But if we say traditional only, I say Queen D2 wins! :p
 
Yeah and WHEN are we going to get that UK Penknife over here at a decent price? I WANT ONE!!!!!!!! I always prefered traditionals until I got my first Spyderco, with the EXCEPTION of BM's 806 and 710, nothing else compares to a Spyder. Dude scrap the SAK, and get a FRN Delica in VG-10 or a Calypso Jr. in VG-10, you'll be much happier. And I did say that I own SAKS, carried one for years, and that they're very good knives, they're just not made for heavier work,(only the ones with ALOX handles have anything resembling a real main blade, the others are just too thin, I do really like the Soldier, but when I want tools I either use my Leatherman or go to the toolbox. Case's CV are wonderful, but their SS is just for looking at:) Schrade's Carbon was never quite as good as Case's, but I have many OT's and I like them a lot, shame they're gone, I've been buying every OT and Uncle Henry I can get my hands on lately. Camillus makes some in Carbon, Boker in Carbon are good also, man I can't wait to try out a Queen in D-2 though:)
 
The only slipjoint I have that can be flicked open is a linoleum knife by Sabre. :)

SAK are OK, but their steel, even on the soldier models, doesn't hold an edge very long. One weekend camping trip and it comes home dull. Any carbon steel or 440C slipjoint will beat its pants. The aluminum handles don't have the pivot problems, like the plastic ones, but the SAK screwdrivers will still deform with tight screws. Their awls often need sharpening.
 
For the longest time I carried a large Sebenza in my right front pocket and in my left was a Case/Bose dogleg jack knife. That Case/Bose jack knife was the finest slipjoint knife I've ever carried. Due to the semi-custom nature of both the Case/Bose series and the CRK Sebenza, I'd say they are pretty equal. I now carry a Case Case Brothers series knife which is also pretty nice.
 
brownshoe said:
The only slipjoint I have that can be flicked open is a linoleum knife by Sabre. :).
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Flicked OPEN? It finally makes sense. Here I thought all that controversy was just about plain old flicking as in giving your knife a good thwack with the end of your finger. Shoot, my right index finger is still sore from flicking all my knives for hours one night. ;)
 
I'll cast a vote for the Schatt & Morgan File and Wire series in ats-34. Classic patterns, excellent fit and finish from all reports I've heard, and premium blade steel. I don't own one at present, but I do covet one. Probably a bargin at around 100$. I should probably not wait to long, I've heard that ats-34 won't be used in future runs.
 
OTguy said:
I'll cast a vote for the Schatt & Morgan File and Wire series in ats-34. Classic patterns, excellent fit and finish from all reports I've heard, and premium blade steel. I don't own one at present, but I do covet one. Probably a bargin at around 100$. I should probably not wait to long, I've heard that ats-34 won't be used in future runs.
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I do not have one, but I'd like to change my answer to agree with the File and Wire Series answer and state that the File and Wire Congress is at the top of that collection.

P.S. My blade holds an edge better than your blade nah nah nah nah :p

:D
 
Okay, I'll grant you the fact that SAKs don't hold their edge as long as some slipjoints, but consider this:

The various tools on the SAK save the main blade from doing the scraping and prying and such.
You can abuse the other blades while keeping the main blade razor-sharp.

And if you have a SAK with a wood-saw, it will out cut ANY stockman or congress or trapper.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
allenC said:
Okay, I'll grant you the fact that SAKs don't hold their edge as long as some slipjoints, but consider this:

The various tools on the SAK save the main blade from doing the scraping and prying and such.
Click to expand...

True, but this is a function of a tool, not a knife. I've used this argument before as well, so I have to give you this one.

allenC said:
You can abuse the other blades while keeping the main blade razor-sharp.
Click to expand...

Well, that's what a 4 bladed congress is for. ;)

allenC said:
And if you have a SAK with a wood-saw, it will out cut ANY stockman or congress or trapper.
Good luck,
Allen.
Click to expand...

That entirely depends on what you are cutting, of course.
:p

I think this is difficult, because SAKs are sort of in a class by themselves, being a knife with additional tools, which doesn't fit the traditional SJs that I keep thinking of (even though the original post does not specify traditional SJ).

I still have to say that the S&M Ats34 Congress File&Wire (i.e Queen Cutlery) gets my vote, though I would put a Vic SAK farmer in the top 5 for sure.

I don't understand how anyone can survive without a knife AND a SAK AND a multitool within arms' reach anyways... :o
 
You're right.

I really wish that some maker would come out with a stockman-style knife (with nice wood or stag scales) BUT instead of a spey-blade, it would have a flat-tip screwdriver/bottle opener.

In the mean time I'll settle on the Victorinox Electrican.
It's not too gadgety and still remains more "pocket-knife" than multi-tool since it only has the main spear-tip blade, a sheepsfoot blade, an awl, and a screw-driver/bottle opener (which is very handy since I like Heineken).

Good luck,
Allen.
 
If we really wanted the Sebenza of SJs it would be:
1. Victorinox SOLDIER (most popular)
2. Titanium scales instead of alox
3. S30V for ALL implements.
4. Same fit and finish Vic is famous for.

It would cost about as much as a seb, but it would definitely be worth it.
Really for an SJ to be the absolute best, it would have to have the best steel, and the best blades and the best design and the best fit/finish.

Who would NEED this knife? Nobody, you could get by with the regular soldier just fine, BUT who NEEDS a sebbie? You can get by with a benchmade or spyderco just fine...to be like a seb, the ultimate SJ will have to be so good that it is worth the same high price.

This is a fun thread... :D
 
Don't most of us here sharpen our knives far more often than necessary?

If so then ipso facto - ALL of those knives have edges that OUTLAST our actual usage.....

I know that sounds like a silly example -
but it is simple FACT.

I think a lot of people put way too much emphasis on the steel, and actually think
great steel = great blade

Nothing could be further from the truth.

here's another really silly example -
take the current "best" steel - whatever you like - S30V, VG10, BG42, 154CM - properly hardened and heat treated -
sharpen to whatever favorite angle like 20deg per side (40deg total).

WoW! great blade huh?

Yes.... it will be "hair popping" sharp, and score paper......

BUT what if the steel stock was 1" thick?

Does anyone still think that's a great knife blade?

I have read many reports where a SAK blade with its less than premium/exotic steel out cut other blades of "superior" steels -
I've done it myself to prove it - it easily out cut blades of "superior" steel - and these were well respected knives and not some junkers..........

Please take a look at some ad-hoc cutting tests in this thread:

Convexed Edge

Victorinox SAKs are "best" in the opinion of some because they simply perform -
in actual real use,
and not just by specifications.....

But if it's fancy material that's wanted -
why not have customized handles?
Scientist2.jpg


--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
 
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