Sebenza v Griptilian

[T.K.C.]

You can not compare a Sebenza to a Benchmade griptillian, they are in different classes!!

 

[glock19er]

sebenza is a great knife in a league of its own but i rather spend the 300 plus on a good handgun and stick with my 100 dollar and less knifes that do the same job the high dollar ones do.

 

[ratbert42]

Tempted by a sebenza for an EDC, but will it give me much that I can't get from a Griptilian?

An ulcer every time you drop it or can't find it. I loved my Sebenza but it was the only knife I've ever sold. That made me an even bigger fan of cheap Spydercos (and my AFCK). I mean, I appreciate the quality, but when it came time to take a knife swimming, rip apart cabling, cut up boxes, hand it to my brother-in-law, scrape a firestarter, hack up sand-covered brush, etc., I just couldn't do it to my Sebenza, so I set it free.

 

[hydrophobia]

An ulcer every time you drop it or can't find it.

I can see how that would be the case

My usual policy with new knives, is to attach them to a length of cord and drag them through the dirt for a few minutes. Then I don't mind using them.

 

[Hair]

I don't think the ergonomics thing is very subjective in this case- I'm not referring to the texture or feel of the material, but you can't put palm swells on G10- it's too expensive to machine. And as far as durability, every G10 knife I've owned or seen has had a lot of scuffing on the handles, whereas I've never seen any scuffing on Zytel, and I've dropped it on pavement, wood, concrete, and tile.

Ergonomics are always subjective... by definition. You can put palm sweels on G-10. It is more expensive, but what does price have to do with ergos? Are we talking about ergos or price. I've never seen scuffing on G-10 or FRN, but either way, G-10 is far stronger. If you don't like scuffing, that is fine, but do not confuse superficial marks with durability.

sebenza is a great knife in a league of its own but i rather spend the 300 plus on a good handgun and stick with my 100 dollar and less knifes that do the same job the high dollar ones do.

A $100 knife can do the work of a $300 one, but a $2 one can do the same as the Grip can. Like I said before, if we knife lovers only bought the knives with the best performance/price ratios and that could do what we need and nothing more, even the grip would be far overpriced and a stupid purchse. Why not just buy an Opinel and an even cheaper handgun? Because you *want* better.

 

[hydrophobia]

A $100 knife can do the work of a $300 one, but a $2 one can do the same as the Grip can. Like I said before, if we knife lovers only bought the knives with the best performance/price ratios and that could do what we need and nothing more, even the grip would be far overpriced and a stupid purchse. Why not just buy an Opinel and an even cheaper handgun? Because you *want* better.

Well, it's that whole diminishing returns thing, isn't it - decreasingly small incremental improvements in performance for a disproportionately large increase in cost.

If it were possible to measure quality and performance objectively, which is always going to be a problem, then you'd probably find the Griptilian offered 20% more than the Opinel for 500% of the price, and likewise comparing the Sebenza to the Grip.

We are all in different circumstances and the exact point at which a knife becomes "too expensive" is a highly subjective judgement.

 

[Hair]

Exactly my thoughts.

I'd like to add that "too expensive" isn't just a matter of how much money you make, but rather, how much of your "fun money" is devoted to knives. People with many hobies may find a Sebenza too expensive because they alsowant a new gun or fishing pole. People who are pretty much just into knives and nothing else may consider a Sebenza a bargain.

 

[3Guardsmen]

You can put palm sweels on G-10. It is more expensive, but what does price have to do with ergos? Are we talking about ergos or price.

Right you are, Hair! And it ain't that much more expensive. Check out a Benchmade Ares (730 series).

Best wishes,
3G

 

[LaBella]

Tempted by a sebenza for an EDC, but will it give me much that I can't get from a Griptilian?

welcome to the forums and get the Sebbie!

 

[T.K.C.]

Get a Sebbie!!

 

[allenC]

If it were possible to measure quality and performance objectively, which is always going to be a problem, then you'd probably find the Griptilian offered 20% more than the Opinel for 500% of the price, and likewise comparing the Sebenza to the Grip.

I have to disagree with this.
After all, the Sebenza and the Griptilian both have similar traits:
Top notch blade-steel
All screw construction
Very strong locks
Easy one-hand operation
Pocket-clips
Very strong and durable materials

OTOH, the Opinel's blade-steel is'nt that great IMO.
It is difficult to disassemble.
The lock is not that strong.
It's difficult to open, lock, unlock, and close with one hand.
It lacks a pocket-clip.
It is not that strong or durable.
Humidity affects the pivot to a great extent.

So I think think that the Griptilian has much greater performance over an Opinel than merely 20%.

And at the same time, I doubt that the Sebenza has even 2% greater performance over a Griptilian.

Allen.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The Opinel is generally praised for the cutting ability which is due to the edge geometry. It would be easy to add a relief grind to the Griptilian so it cut just as well. I find the grip on the Opinel ergonomic for extended use, more so than a lot of the clip folders which are generally slimmer for ease of carry. However as you noted Allen it also has a host of negatives.

-Cliff

 

[ratbert42]

If you really want a Sebenza, no Spyderco or Gerber or Benchmade is going to keep you from wanting the Sebenza.

Had I not bought a Sebenza then sold it, I am sure that I would still be looking to buy one "someday." The worst thing to do, and I do it all the time, is to try to fill a void by buying cheaper alternatives several times, then finally buying what you think you want. You're better off going ahead and buying the top of the line thing you're lusting after from the very start. Then if you decide that's not really what you need, you can sell it to someone else.

 

[Vivi]

Exactly my thoughts.

I'd like to add that "too expensive" isn't just a matter of how much money you make, but rather, how much of your "fun money" is devoted to knives. People with many hobies may find a Sebenza too expensive because they alsowant a new gun or fishing pole. People who are pretty much just into knives and nothing else may consider a Sebenza a bargain.

Right on. I'll spend months waiting to get even a 15$ SAK. Why? Skateboarding, bass guitar equipment, music CD's, food etc come first. Besides, as many knives as I would lik eto own simply to experience their unique qualities, I know that between my Native, Delica and small SAK collection I'm probably set for life when it comes to pocket-sized folders.

 

[Hair]

I originally used the Opinel example because it is very simple and low-tech and shows how little knife we actually need.

If you feel it is not a good example, then use an inexpensive one-hand opener and closer like the Buck Mayo Hilo and Cutback. It is just as strong and just as practical as a Griptilian.

My point is that, while it is true that a Grip will do pretty much everything a Sebenza will, there are knives that will do everything a Grip will for less money as well. So if a Grip owner puts down a Sebbie owner because they paid more and didn't get much performance, well, there are many people who can put down Grip owners as well. Everyone has a different opinion on how much money is appropriate to spend on a knife. To most people, more than $10 bucks on a knife is stupid, and a Griptilian is an idiot's knife. Obviously, they don't understand. And it seems a lot of knife people don't understand the Sebenza.

Knives are about more than price/performance or value. Many of us knife knuts don't just lust after knives because of their performance or value, but because of their materials, status, workmanship, quality, and importance. Also, while a Grip may have a great performance/price value, as a collectors item, it is junk (even the Ritter and Cabela's versions) compared to, say, a nice Loveless or Moran example. So it depends on what kind of value you are after.

Yes, knives that are a great value are great buys. But I buy the knives I want. Sometimes they cost a little, sometimes they cost a lot. Sometimes they are great inexpensive users (or beaters) and sometimes they are more expensive but offer even more joy than the price increase would suggest.

I guess there is a difference between being a knife user and a knife knut.

The Grip costs less than a Sebenza for good reasons, in other words, a Sebenza costs more for good reasons. Are you willing to pay for those reasons? That is up to you.

But I don't feel anyone should be put down for buying a Sebenza. It really is a lot of knife for the money. It is one of the best buys I have made in my life and I would rather have $385 worth of Sebbie than $385 worth of BMs, Spydercos, Bucks etc.... I would rather have a Sebbie than a Grip and $320 bucks in my pocket. Call me what you will, but I like to think of myself as happy.

But as a knife knut, I do not buy a Sebbie and call it a day. I do have a Buck Mayo Cutback. I do have a Griptilian. And I do have a Sebbie. I love them all. I have tons of inexpensive knives, and some more expensive ones. I started buying swap-meet junkers, and they made me happy. But I moved up to good knives under $60 bucks or so, such as the Leek, 110, Native, etc... They made me happy. Then I started buying $100-$200 production knives like the Manix and Skirmish. They made me happy. Now I have been into Sebenzas, Mnandis, Striders, William Henrys, and am about to make the jump to customs (a John W. Smith framelock and Tom Mayo TNT will be my first 2).

A Griptilian doesn't give me the same rush as a Sebenza, or a TNT. If it gives you want you want (while, say, a Buck Mayo Cutback does not), then buy one. But be aware that less expensive knives will do what a Grip does just as your Grip can do what a TNT or Firetac does.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

My point is that, while it is true that a Grip will do pretty much everything a Sebenza will, there are knives that will do everything a Grip will for less money as well.

Essentially you can do any cutting with any knife but some are more efficient. The main issue with Sebenzas usually discussed is the performance/price ratio. It isn't difficult to find a knife which is much cheaper with the same materials and even general construction. While an Opinel is much cheaper than a RSK, the RSK has many significant advantages but looking at the RSK vs Sebenza it is hard to argue the same type of performance increase. Of course not everyone buys knives as working tools.

So if a Grip owner puts down a Sebbie owner because they paid more and didn't get much performance ...

That's just silly on so many levels. Different people want different things and have different amounts of money, there are lots of people who would see Sebenza's as dirt cheap, there are lots of customs costing *MUCH* more. Bladeforums is supposed to be about the knives, not inferences about the people who use them.

-Cliff

 

[DaveH]

buys knives as working tools

I think this is a key point, I buy knives to cut stuff, but that's only 33% of the entire use. the other purposes it serves are entertainment and pride of ownership (call it what you may). Grips are nice knives, but for those latter 2 reasons a sebenza works better for me.

So it really goes back to what do you want a knife for?

 

[db]

The Opinel's lock is not that strong? I don't really agree with that at all. I'd guess it is one of the strongest and most reliable. At the least just as good if not better than both the Sebenza and griptilian locks.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The Opinel lock is fairly secure however it is very weak both due to the very high contact pressure on the mating surfaces as well as the fact that the locking ring rests against wood. I doubt it would pass even the lowest rating Spyderco has for strength.

-Cliff

 

[allenC]

db,
After reading your post, I had to find out.
And now I have a broken Opinel No. 8.
Luckily, Opinels are not very expensive.

I went out to the garage and put the No. 8 in a vise and applied pressure with just my hand.
It broke rather easily with very little pressure required...but it did not break in the manner that I thought it would.
I thought that the collar would simple spread apart, possibly even springing off the knife and in to my face.
What happened surprised me:
While the collar did spread apart some (about 3/16"), the blade forced the collar down on to the handle.
On the spine side of the handle, the collar went over the handle and downward about 1/2".
But on the edge side of the handle, the collar actually bit in to the wood handle, splitting the handle that same 1/2" distance.

I wish that I had a camera to show you guys some pics.

Anyway, now I have to find me another Opinel for my collection.

Allen.