Sebenza's Equivalent?

[marthinus]

I remember those quotes by Sal, and the thing that kinda sticks out for me is how he mentions that the differences really can't be seen without specialized equipment and in the long term. That's where the diminishing returns really kick in. A very pedestrian knife can last a generation quite easily, and being hand tools used for gross cutting actions, the precision fit is just not going to be perceived. There is time and labor involved in the production of a Sebenza, absolutely no doubt? My personal view is that the extra zeroes after the decimal are an embellishment, something that does not improve the knife in ways that matter to me. If the steel, lock, and handle were different, I would pay for the precision. I've spent more than double the price of a Seb a few times, so it isn't the cost.

I think this is key (in bold) it depends for each person if they can justify the price, cost, performance, FOR ANY KNIFE.

For new members here it is important to read as much as possible (use the search) and make up their own mind. The more one reads with an open mind and respect for others' opinions, the more one becomes educated to make up your own mind on what works for you or dont.

Other side of the coin. One cannot force ones opinion onto others.

When I started here I thought a Benchmade Grip was high end. The more I read, became educated and contacted knife makers and visited them the more I realised: Each person has their own opinion on what is a good knife. There is not one be all end all of knives.

 

[Cynic2701]

The pivot bushing set I got is machined to tolerances of .0002" and made from hardened stainless. I never suggested it was the cost of the materials alone, that's just what a precision pivot bushing set costs, I don't know what more to tell you.

I agree that a quality knife is worth more than the sum of its parts, be it production or a custom. I've held, opened, and closed sebenzas, striders, hinderers, & umnumzaans side by side with some customs that are around the same price range (notably Brian Fellhoelter & Brad Southard), and there is a very noticeable difference. I will always buy production knives since aside from sprint run pre-orders, those don't require a long wait. However, when the price and workmanship of a production folder is up where quality customs can be considered an option, the pedestal doesn't look as high anymore.

Is that .0002 inch? That doesn't compare well to .0005 mm.

 

[gooeytek]

.0002" almost approaches reasonable limits for CNC machining before needing to factor in precise climate controlled conditions, I don't know how much finer the Sebenza's tolerances are, but I don't think I'm doing too bad for that $5 part. Anything less than .0001 and I'll have to take your work on it since I don't have any instruments that can measure down past 4 decimal places. I do know that I have felt smoother and better from similarly-priced customs, that's all I'm trying to say here.

 

[orork]

To answer the OP. I'm liking the ZT 0551 and the Voros & Schatz.

 

[Muaddib1116]

Is that .0002 inch? That doesn't compare well to .0005 mm.

Where did you see mm? If that's what CRK is claiming, I'm not sure I believe it. 0.0002 inches is pretty damn respectable for any type of dimensional tolerance.

 

[JNewell]

Approach the question from a different angle. Which of the following companies encourages owners to disassemble their knives and includes a tool in the box to do so? Which knife company does not state that your warranty is void if you disassemble the knife?

1. Spyderco?
2. Benchmade?
3. Strider?
4. Cold Steel?
5. Buck?
6. Kershaw?
7. Chris Reeve?

 

[matt1987]

I think Sebenza's are a nice looking knife. I never held one but I can see the quality. Realistically, $400-$500 for something you enjoy really isn't that much. People buy $200 cell phones, $1,000+ guns, $500 Ipads etc. If you can appreciate the quality and design then go for it. If not, no biggie, a $100-$200 knife will serve you just as well IMO. I think a plain old Military is a fine alternative.

Approach the question from a different angle. Which of the following companies encourages owners to disassemble their knives and includes a tool in the box to do so? Which knife company does not state that your warranty is void if you disassemble the knife?

1. Spyderco?
2. Benchmade?
3. Strider?
4. Cold Steel?
5. Buck?
6. Kershaw?
7. Chris Reeve?

Very true. But if you don't strip a screw or put the knife together backwards etc. I doubt anyone could tell someone has taken it apart in the first place.

 

[James Y]

I've owned a Seb since 2002, and though it's scuffed now and had several resharpenings, its lockup and precision are still the same as when new. I've also owned and used a lot of other knives, probably my favorites of those would be the Spydie Military and esp. the Para 2. As good as these knives are, I don't see them with the same long-term durability or precision as my Seb. Once I had gotten over the Seb's price point in my mind, I found it to be an awesome user knife. I would periodically return to it over and over throughout the years.

However, another knife has recently come along that has unseated my Seb and had me really set it aside, and that is the Umnumzaan. Since I got it, it hasn't left my side. I wouldn't use it in salt water like I would my Pacific Salt, but for everything else, it's my main user now.

Jim

 

[JNewell]

In theory they wouldn't, but that isn't the point. The Sebenza's manufacturing tolerances are such that there are no questions about whether it will go back together properly without any sort of adjustment or finesse.

I think Sebenza's are a nice looking knife. I never held one but I can see the quality. Realistically, $400-$500 for something you enjoy really isn't that much. People buy $200 cell phones, $1,000+ guns, $500 Ipads etc. If you can appreciate the quality and design then go for it. If not, no biggie, a $100-$200 knife will serve you just as well IMO. I think a plain old Military is a fine alternative.



Very true. But if you don't strip a screw or put the knife together backwards etc. I doubt anyone could tell someone has taken it apart in the first place.

 

[CARRERA50]

I am as usual the lone voice in such questions for an alternative. My suggestion is to investigate the manically precise Swiss brand Klotzli. Precision feel is at least good as on my Sebenza, and they offer nicer finish with a combination of polished and sandblasted titanium, inlays and anodisation. Very good stuff indeed.

Admit that you want one:

Just can't see that kind of investment in 440C...

 

[twl]

I have a gorgeous Bradley Alias II with the plain edge, and I think it is a worthy alternative.
I have read some posts about some Bradleys having various flaws, but I can attest that mine locks up "bank vault" like a fixed-blade knife, has absolutely ZERO blade play in any direction, flicks open with blinding speed, and yes mine can also open slowly too(no detent issues and stays closed properly), blade is centered right down the middle, and it is as smooth operating as silk, and sharp as a razor, and fit and finish are superb.
I love the blade shape, and even prefer the Bradley blade shape to the Sebenza blade shape, and I also feel the same way about the handle shape.

If there is any better made knife than this one, I don't think I need it. This one is clearly as close to absolute perfection as I will ever need.
With what I got for the money it cost, I feel like I stole it. It is an awesome knife. No BS. I love it.

 

[Rudeco]

You have to be careful with customs - for all the advantages a nice custom may bring, they can also come with some disadvantages. You have to choose carefully and wisely when signing up for a custom. And it's a really good idea to go custom with a maker who has already learned their craft and not those who you help pay them to learn.

Stick with the tried and true makers if you go custom . . . the downside to that is they can command higher prices and usually do which can sometimes take you out of the CRK/Strider price point. The upside to an established and experienced maker? You won't get a test piece. You'll get a knife that works and works well. Again, looks are deceiving. Well designed knives will have a natural flow for the thumbstud arc, they won't have overly loose or tight detents, the will be dehorned, the action will be smooth, the pivot adjustment will allow for no bladeplay while still providing smooth operation. All these things matter. Good looks are secondary yet still important too.

You don't always get these things in a custom until a maker has travelled their path for a while.

Pictures on the internet never determine exactly how a custom is going to function let alone how it will truly look in person once you have it in your hands.

I say all of this through experience. If I could recover the money I've spent on a few recent customs, I'd turn it right around on a high end production or mid-tech knife in a heart beat and not look back . . .

If I ever go custom again, it's going to be a long term maker who has built several knives for many here that I know and the bottom line is that finding one of those for $500 or less is not going to be easy and the wait time can be significant too.

In fact, I can't see ordering another custom for a long time except when I get the go ahead from Andrew Demko.

+5 on this, everything was on point.

 

[dextertron]

How 'bout the techno? I find it nearly as impressive next to my small insingo. Hate to compare something called a techno to a CRK but if you've ever held one it'll make a pocket rocket out of your wallet. Not sure if this is something perceptual but the lockup on the techno seems just as, if not MORE SOLID than the Sebenza... don't flag me here, I'd shave my eyebrows for a year before I trade away my sebenza.

 

[goldie]

My real only gripe with the sebenza is that as a lefty, i wish double thumb lugs were standard,not a more expensive option.on a 400.00 knife,it almost makes no sense to me.

 

[wuyeah]

I LOVE Combat Elite RRF feel in palm a lot more over Sebenza. I like it so much I am considering getting a DDR custom.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

I don't own a sebbie yet, but i plan on getting something from CRK once I gather enough scratch for it. That being said, I do honestly think you are "paying for the name", and I'm willing to pay for it. Even at the entry level price of on or about $400. The relationship between price and performance is not linear, and everybody knows it. After a certain point, you are paying for name. That goes for just about everything, from watches, clothing, cars, gadgets, and certainly knives. Brand name recognition goes a long way socially, and we are social creatures of consumption. All that said, CRK knives are still known for quality. I don't even own one but I associate their name with quality. The CRK brand didn't build that reputation overnight.

Do I think there are knives on par in quality (or maybe better) for the same price or even lower? I absolutely do. Do I still want to have a nice CRK knife in my collection? I absolutely do.

 

[JNewell]

Linearity is the issue, but name is not (in this case) what you're paying for. It's the disproportionately additional effort required to maintain Sebenza tolerances. It is not surprising that the Sebenza is quietly going the way of the Dodo...

I don't own a sebbie yet, but i plan on getting something from CRK once I gather enough scratch for it. That being said, I do honestly think you are "paying for the name", and I'm willing to pay for it. Even at the entry level price of on or about $400. The relationship between price and performance is not linear, and everybody knows it. After a certain point, you are paying for name. That goes for just about everything, from watches, clothing, cars, gadgets, and certainly knives. Brand name recognition goes a long way socially, and we are social creatures of consumption. All that said, CRK knives are still known for quality. I don't even own one but I associate their name with quality. The CRK brand didn't build that reputation overnight.

Do I think there are knives on par in quality (or maybe better) for the same price or even lower? I absolutely do. Do I still want to have a nice CRK knife in my collection? I absolutely do.