Second Chance Offers--Beware.

[bucksforus]

One way to avoid this is to use snipe bids. That way the seller won't know how much anyone is bidding.Ii know a lot of people don't like to use snipe bids, it might solve some of the problems. You won't have the urge to up the bid more than you want to spend. Just a thought.

 

[BG42EDGE]

Well, if everybody (including the shill bidder) bids in the last five seconds the price will still shoot up to the level the shill bidder (seller) bids.

Yes, you should ALWAYS snipe (just like you should ALWAYS pay with a credit card) but sniping will not protect you from a seller using a shill because the shill sets the top price......even in the last five seconds.

 

[skyhorse]

Yeah, I too have seen that when I tried to bid on a Buck awhile back and each time I bid up it seemed like the same person with (0) feedback would out bid me. I finally said that's it- no more and sure enough, I received the same email, offering me a "Second Chance" less than 5 minutes after the close of the auction. I responded with "Naaa...go ahead and sell it to your wife, she won it fair and square."

That's funny,when a seller puts in a fake bid and ends up winning his own auction he has to pay via pay pal then Ebay and pay pal each get a percentage of the sale.In the end it costs the crooked seller money.:thumbup:

 

[Plumberdv]

The shill doesn't even have to pay. The seller can just cancel the transaction and the " have" the shill agree. That way, the seller doesn't have to pay any PayPal or eBay fees either.

 

[Stumps]

There is one seller that I have been watching to see how many times they sell the same three dot from "Grandma & Grandpa's storage unit".

I bid on it once. Got beat out in the auction. Got a second chance offer. I made a counter offer at a price that was one bid increment higher than the bid under mine and got refused.

Watched the same three dot go through another auction cycle and close at a price that was in the range of my offer the first time around.

Thought it was gone, but saw it was listed again yesterday.

That seller sounds legit to me.

 

[Plumberdv]

There is one seller that I have been watching to see how many times they sell the same three dot from "Grandma & Grandpa's storage unit".

I bid on it once. Got beat out in the auction. Got a second chance offer. I made a counter offer at a price that was one bid increment higher than the bid under mine and got refused.

Watched the same three dot go through another auction cycle and close at a price that was in the range of my offer the first time around.

Thought it was gone, but saw it was listed again yesterday.

That seller sounds legit to me.

They may not be selling the same one. They had a bunch of them and I think ITE knows who they are or where they got all of them. They had five listed and I made an offer for three and they accepted.

When the other two were also gone, they listed five more but they decided they could get more for them and turned down my offer to buy them all at the same price (each) that I bought the first three.

 

[mqqn]

Hi folks -

This topic is why I was so opposed to the hiding of buyer id's on auctions.

At least at a live auction you can see who you are bidding against.

The_Longbow nailed it, just bid what you are willing to pay and one will come along eventually. If you get your price run up a little, you still have only paid what you were willing to pay.

It is an interesting point that Ebay stands to make extra profit from shill bidding practices, and it seems like they created a comfy, warm environment for this by hiding the bidders info from other bidders.

No black helicopters here, just my observations. Just because I am paranoid does not mean they aren't really out to get me. :^)

best regards -

mqqn

 

[Stumps]

They may not be selling the same one. They had a bunch of them and I think ITE knows who they are or where they got all of them. They had five listed and I made an offer for three and they accepted.

When the other two were also gone, they listed five more but they decided they could get more for them and turned down my offer to buy them all at the same price (each) that I bought the first three.

Okay....thanks. It just seemed strange to see pictures of the same exact vintage knife and box in three different listings.

By the way....I'll say hello to everyone. I'm new here as you can see. Not new to the quality of Buck Knives though. My edc was an old two dot 110 . It was used and abused on construction sites for over 25 years. It sat in a drawer for the last 10 years though.

I felt like I had run into an old friend when I found it again.

My best Buck is a 1984 124 with what I think I remember as a cherry handle that I got new and have had in a case all these years.

I'm still partial to the 110's though. :thumbup:

 

[OldKnife007]

I resent the implication that those of us sellers using the second chance offer are trying to scam you buyer. I have over 2500 positive feedbacks, and I have yet to screw any one. Last week I sold a half dozen bucks, and so far, according to feedback and messages, all buyers are happy.

The second chance offer came about from ebay because some buyers, yours truly included, would sell an item, then, having the screen names of the losers, would offer them a same item. Worked fine, but ebay was losing out. So the not perfect present system was began, where the 'winner' of an auction is actually the loser because he pays more for an item than the people he out bid. I agree there should be a better way, but as long as the system is in place, and I am offering the EXACT SAME KINDA OF ITEM, I see no reason not to make such second chance offers. And many, many ebay buyers are on board with this.

I see on any forum concerning the use or collecting of certain items, complaints about ebay sellers. I don't like it. I could go on and on about bad buyers, but what the heck, I think I have made my point.

I will add that shill bidding is much, much harder to pull off than what you buyers may think it is.

 

[Plumberdv]

I resent the implication that those of us sellers using the second chance offer are trying to scam you buyer. I have over 2500 positive feedbacks, and I have yet to screw any one. Last week I sold a half dozen bucks, and so far, according to feedback and messages, all buyers are happy.

The second chance offer came about from ebay because some buyers, yours truly included, would sell an item, then, having the screen names of the losers, would offer them a same item. Worked fine, but ebay was losing out. So the not perfect present system was began, where the 'winner' of an auction is actually the loser because he pays more for an item than the people he out bid. I agree there should be a better way, but as long as the system is in place, and I am offering the EXACT SAME KINDA OF ITEM, I see no reason not to make such second chance offers. And many, many ebay buyers are on board with this.



I see on any forum concerning the use or collecting of certain items, complaints about ebay sellers. I don't like it. I could go on and on about bad buyers, but what the heck, I think I have made my point.

I will add that shill bidding is much, much harder to pull off than what you buyers may think it is.

Not all of us see conspiracies and shills (when the price goes high) behind every rock. I have over 1480 transactions on eBay and everyone is as a buyer. I think it takes a lot more courage to be a seller these days than it ever took to be a buyer. I've had very few problems and when I did, they were well taken care of either by the seller, eBay or Paypal.

I've bought several knives when given a second chance offer from a seller and they have always been what I feel was a legitimate case of the seller having more than one of the item. I even got one where I was the third highest bidder and took it.

 

[BG42EDGE]

Some apparently just jump in and get resentful without reading the thread, so I'll repeat.

Nobody said second chance is always foul play, so let's keep that straight.

And as I said before, bidding only what you are willing to part with will not protect you from shill bidding.......only carefully examining your seller's record will protect you from shill bidding.

Shill bidding means that everybody pays more, even those that bid a set max can end up paying more than they would have had the auction run honestly.

Truth is, buyers can give good feedback and be happy only because they don't know they were shilled.

As the Plumberdv said, sellers are having a real tough time on e-Bay these days, so some of them do unethical things.

Most don't, but that doesn't mean we don't have to be vigilant and aware of all the tactics to keep from being taken to the cleaners.

 

[Plumberdv]

The only way you can be taken to the cleaners is to drive yourself there. No one forces anyone to bid or bid higher.

 

[postfallsidaho]

Not all of us see conspiracies and shills (when the price goes high) behind every rock. I have over 1480 transactions on eBay and everyone is as a buyer. I think it takes a lot more courage to be a seller these days than it ever took to be a buyer. I've had very few problems and when I did, they were well taken care of either by the seller, eBay or Paypal.

I've bought several knives when given a second chance offer from a seller and they have always been what I feel was a legitimate case of the seller having more than one of the item. I even got one where I was the third highest bidder and took it.

:thumbup: I agree 100%

Okay....thanks. It just seemed strange to see pictures of the same exact vintage knife and box in three different listings.

By the way....I'll say hello to everyone. I'm new here as you can see. Not new to the quality of Buck Knives though. My edc was an old two dot 110 . It was used and abused on construction sites for over 25 years. It sat in a drawer for the last 10 years though.

I felt like I had run into an old friend when I found it again.

My best Buck is a 1984 124 with what I think I remember as a cherry handle that I got new and have had in a case all these years.

I'm still partial to the 110's though. :thumbup:

Welcome to the Buck forum Stumps! Got any pics of that sweet 124 to share with us? We love pictures!

The only way you can be taken to the cleaners is to drive yourself there. No one forces anyone to bid or bid higher.

LOL, I am speechless LOL Can I quote this someday

 

[BG42EDGE]

The only way you can be taken to the cleaners is to drive yourself there. No one forces anyone to bid or bid higher.

No, the fact is that if you bid your max you can still get the item cheaper, often much cheaper than that max bid.

However, if shill bidding is added, you will usually pay more than you would have with an honest auction.

That's really not so difficult to understand.

 

[OldKnife007]

Plumberdv, you are a very wise man. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm here.

BG42, seems like you see a shill behind every auction. I think that perhaps instead of blaming imaginary shills, you take a good, close look at your bidding habits. That is probably where your problem lays.

Once again, shill bidding is not half as easy as a couple of you might think. And ebay comes down like a ton of crap on people caught involved in it. Ebay has a lot of faults, but they do not condon shilling, or several other shady practices some few sellers engage in.

 

[BG42EDGE]

LOL! All that has been refuted earlier in the thread and I'm quite happy with the way my current bidding strategies work out (I've been on the Bay for many years both as seller and buyer).

I do sympathize with those who have to sell under the current e-Bay conditions (which heavily favor buyers) but buyers do need to be aware and informed.

It's quite simple, if you suspect shill bidding, stay away from that seller and report them to e-Bay through the e-Bay system.

Honest sellers will never be hurt by this.......never.

 

[110 Dave]

The only way you can be taken to the cleaners is to drive yourself there. No one forces anyone to bid or bid higher.

hay can i buy the rights to that say ing?
hee hee
good discusson here.. camo black wisper helo's
yea ya dont hear them a comeing tell dey is a right over your shed
were ya makes bug juce... then it be to dang late
dey fly over my house a lot ... dont kno why...

i but 2 ed chance a lot
i make buy tit now offers also
strangely many time the listing ends and i get it for less!
yea i check and flea bay dont care long as they get their cut
me ... i wish bay would at least post winers id that way i know if bg is out bidding me or not ...

like said never offer more then you will give .
know your market also..
the market on bucks is drooping a lot!
so what you paid last year
is now way more then you pay now..

 

[BG42EDGE]

i wish bay would at least post winers id that way i know if bg is out bidding me or not

You'll never see or hear me, Dave. I am the black stealth sniper-whisper-bidder-copter.



Do you actually think prices are getting lower on Bucks?

I don't see it.

 

[Tin Sue]

i make buy tit now offers also

Those offers can get you in trouble!!

 

[bucksway]

My son is selling a few things on the bay and I was SHOCKED at how much e;bay makes off each sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For all the money they get they should give better service to both buyers and sellers....I'm looking more and more at Craigs list...