Security Hassells..............

Apr 27, 1999
I am a paramedic and recently had an encounter with a rent-a-cop at one of the local ER's. My partner and I were dropping off a D.O.S. at the morgue and after unloading our cot, the security guard noticed that both my partner and myself were carrying CS Tanto Voyagers in our pockets. After he asked to see what they were and examined them, he started reading us the riot act, telling us that he never wanted to see another knife in his ER again and that he could conviscate our knives and such!!!! My partner and I left the hospital and laughed it off, but this was irritating to the nth degree to the both of us. In the area I work, my knives fill the role of tool/last-ditch hide saver. Anyone else have any similar stories?

Yes it's sharp!!!! Now go get the first-aid kit!!!
I'll spare you all the details as I posted my tale of woe on the forums a couple of weeks ago. But the upshot is that a security guard at the Federal building where I work freaked out when he saw my Spyderco zytel plain edge Dragonfly clipped to my shirt pocket and confiscated it until I left the building for the day.


who dares, wins

Give someone a little power and it goes right to his or her head.

Knife Medic, with the job you and your guys do for all of us I think a little slack should be thrown your way. You guys save lives, you don't endanger them. Being out on the street, put into every conceivable dangerous environment and situation, a good knife is the least defensive piece of equipment you should have with you.

Thanks for being there for us.

This is something that has never happened to me until recently. Two weeks ago some classmates and I were celebrating the end of the semester and the fact that we are eligible to test for our Peace Officer's license. We went to a local "gentlemans club" for a couple of beers and on the way in were confronted by a doorman who noticed my Commander and my friend's Endura. He informed us that we could either leave the knives in our vehicles or leave them at the door. There was no posting at the door stating that knives were not allowed in the club, and it seemed rather arbitrary. I chose not to make an issue of it and handed over my knife, as did my friend.
Next time something like this occurs, I fully intend to speak to the manager or supervisor and give them my opinion of how poorly such a policy reflects on their establishment. It seems that security companies are allowing their guards (knowingly or not) to enforce policies that they have no business enforcing. Security guards are not cops, they are usually not trained in law so what business do they have informing people what they can and cannot do?
In a class last semester, a female security guard called my AFCK an "assualt knife" when I allowed my instructor to use it in a demonstration, and that she would never allow me into an area where she was working. I couldnt believe that statement.
I used to carry two knives around (one hidden), but gave that up as I rarely ever used my primary knife. In light of my last experience I believe I am going to start carrying a secondary knife hidden away for such an event.

God save us from those with little minds and authority to go with it. Karma would dictate that he would need your help one day and the knife would be the best tool available. If you have a good relationship with the head of ER or your boss I would get the idiot clued in to who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. This guard sounds like a candidate for re-education. I have no tolerance for these little minded people. that is why I'm glad I now have a job working with Military and Police Special operations professionals.

Blue Skies,


"Cet animal est tres mechant;quand on l'attaque il se defend."("This animal is very mischievous: when it is attacked it defends itself")
Knife Medic!
I am a Peace Officer for a state hospital and how i see it is that the flash light cop was breaking balls! Who is he especially if you are an E.M.T. or ParaMedic to tell you what is part of your work equipment. We get tons of E.M.T's going in and out of the hospital on a daily basis, alot of them i know who are into knive's like us. I don't have to tell you the importance of that tool on the job. For cutting a victim out of a vehicle if you had to or for simply self defense. If something this stupid would happen again i would speak to that flash light cops security supervisor!


[This message has been edited by jacko (edited 20 May 1999).]
Another thing to consider......

Anytime anyone denies you the right to carry a weopon on your person in their premises they are DE FACTO taking your safety into their hands. If you are mugged, raped, stabbed, robbed, beaten, etc, after they have disarmed you, they are responsible. The NRA's legal branch, the ILA, has made this abundantly clear to many businesses that have posted "No Weapons" or "No Guns" signs. Right after my home state of Texas passed the concealed carry law, signage of that sort was being supplied by HCI to businesses free of charge. A few calls, letters, and visits from the ILA, and the signs were coming down.
I helped install the lighting for the re-dedication of San Francisco's City Hall earlier this year, and when I passed through the metal detectors the security guard gave my tool bag a thorough going over. Not too surprising in a building where a City Supervisor murdered two people, including the Mayor. He flicked open my AFCK and gave me the hairy eyeball. I gave the usual response of “It’s a tool” and he handed it back, not happy but not wanting the hassle. Everyone on the call went through the same routine.

We then proceeded to roll two trucks full of boxes into the building without a second look from them.

I did a gig that the Vice-President spoke at, and the Secret Service is a much stricter outfit. No lights suspended over the VPs head, personal and bag inspection, men watching you unpack and set up the gear. When you climb to the top of a scaffold to point a spotlight or camera at their guy, they make sure that is all you have to point with.

I recall being patted down twice that day, but never having my knife questioned. I don’t know if that was because they have better things to worry about, or because I don’t carry one of the dreaded “switchblades”.

Had an Army brat who worked as a waiter in a low-scale restraunt out of the middle of nowhere once tell me to pack away my AFCK. There were no laws that said you couldn't CLIP your folder on you. That's what the clip was designed for. Course I don't think it got through that pea-sized brain of his. Stupid idiot had just got through boot camp and went around acting like he WAS the Army.

Sorry, had to vent.
Much as I'd like to vent my own feelings about this, I belive someone said it best, oh, about 200 years ago.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed."

Okay, so the emphasis on bear was mine. But instead of consulting court cases and goodness knows what else, I tried consulting a plain old dictionary for the definition of the term "militia" and "arms" (Webster's New Dictionary and Thesaurus, published 1990, the dictionary I've been using since high school), and guess what?

A militia is "an army composed of CIVILIANS called out in time of EMERGENCY."

An "arm" is simply a weapon. In 1776, this would consist of a knife and a flintlock rifle/pistol. Today, an "armed" man could be anything from a citizen carrying a Swiss Army Knife to an M-1 tank. The main distinction lies with the intention of him who bears the weapon, not with the inanimate weapon itself.

So, if the 2nd ammendment really only supports the right of the government to arm itself in support of the people, I guess the 1st ammendment (free speach) just supports the right of the government to speak on behalf of the people, right?

I guess the whole point of this is, as a United States citizen, whether you're a medic or an (ahem) accountant, you have a RIGHT to bear any ARM you see fit to bear. No matter what any security guard or politcian tells you, you don't need to apologize for the rights our forefathers gave to us.

Ryan Meyering

[This message has been edited by Ryan Meyering (edited 21 May 1999).]
A security guard has no powers beyond citizens arrest unless he is deputized by a local,state or fed govt. They can't confiscate anything, they can prevent you from entering a premises under the athority of the owner or ask you to leave (they act as an agent of their employer)
Knife Medic, blow it off, and be more discreet next time. Or, like someone else said, talk to someone who actually has authority in that area. If they disagree with the guard, he just learned something and you won. If they agree, back to be more discreet next time. Only one time in my life have I given my last blade, and that was when I had to appear in court, and had to pass through a metal detector as well.

I recall being patted down twice that day, but never having my knife questioned. I don’t know if that was because they [the Secret Service-ed.] have better things to worry about, or because I don’t carry one of the dreaded “switchblades”.

Actually, it was probably because they are well educated in what is actually a threat to the Pres./V.P., and a knife ain't it.
My friend was visiting from out of state and he wanted to check out holsters at our local gun shops. He is wearing a fanny pack holster that he sometimes carries a gun in because he has a permit to carry where he lives. He is not carrying in my state because he is a law-abiding doctor of medecine. We depart the store and an off-duty policeman follows us out, goes to his car, gets his gun, badge, radio and stops us. He says he recognizes the fanny pack as a holster and wants to ensure that my friend is not carrying a gun illegally. My friend shows there is no gun and explains he has a permit to carry where he lives. My friend and I are not dirt balls. In fact we were dressed in dress slacks and polo shirts. My friend looks like a Boy Scout. He only stopped us because my friend was wearing a fanny pack.
My last reply didn't include knives, but here is another story that does. I was attending an international conference overseas and the local police had set up a screening area in the hotel lobby where the conference was held. I usually carried a Spyderco Endura and a Leatherman, but because I knew security would be tight I carried a Swiss Army knife. I emptied my pockets, put my briefcase on the x-ray and walked through the metal detector. The cop triumphantly picks up the Swiss Army Knife and asks "What's this?" I start laughing because the guy is very serious. I say "Its a Swiss Army knife". He looks over to a supervisor and shows it to them. The supervisor just waves it through. I was very surprised to be hassled over a Swiss Army Knife.

Another conference overseas, but this time the hotel I am visiting will have President Clinton and other dignitaries staying in it. Again security is tight and they have a screening area. I empty my pockets and walk through the metal detector. This time I am carrying a Spyderco Endura. They start to hassle me. Fortunately, one of the US delegations security detail who I know sees me and asks what the problem is. My friend tells the locals he will hold my knife until I depart the building. He then returns the knife after I clear the screening area. I think they would have taken the knife except for this intervention.
A friend went to see the VP talk at the University of KY. Not only did the SS take her SAK and everyone elses penknife, leatherman etc they just threw them in plastic garbage bags. When asked about the return of her knife she was told to search through the bag of about 100 knives to find hers. Not only could she not find hers it would have been possible for anyone to take any of them. that is probably what happened to hers. Makes no sense.
O-D, As stated, better things to worry about.


"Cet animal est tres mechant; quand on l'attaque il se defend."("This animal is very mischievous: when it is attacked it defends itself.")

What a great quote:
can you tell me where it comes from?

The Fighting Old Man

The quote came from the most insightful and prolific scribe of all time...anonymous.

On knife security stories I used to travel abroad a lot. Mostly to places that were not on the top ten tourist destinations. Comming back from Africa one time,through Zurich, I was detained and strip searched at the airport. The only item that I had on me almost lethal(to the un-initiated)was a SAK climber. Once I held it up to my assailant's
supervisor he took the guard to task for embarassing the entire country.

On another trip to Latvia I was asked if I had any weapons to declare. I said no only pocket knives. The agent looked at me funny, said those are not weapons and waved me through. If I had not promised all of the knives as gifts I would have given him one.



"Cet animal est tres mechant;quand on l'attaque il se defend."("This animal is very mischievous: when it is attacked it defends itself")
Here's a different twist of the thread.

My line of work often takes me to strange places. Recently it took me to the local nuclear power plant where I expected to meet some of the engineers who were working outside the plant.

I know the kind of security they have here complete with x-ray and sniffers but since I expected to be outside the plant, I retained the Emerson Commander and Genesis 1 that I normally carry.

To my surprize, the engineers wanted to take me deep inside the operation and suddenly there was the x-ray machine and guard. I calmly emptied my pockets, put both knives in the bowl beneath my wallet and steped into the scanner. The guard looked everything over, handled me the bowl and wished me a good day as I repacked everything INSIDE THE PLANT!

Go figure.

Life is a journey, not a guided tour -- GO ARMED!

Regarding rent-a-cops, they are in fact only agents of the owner and cannot take anything from you, much to their dismay at times. I feel most security guards feel a lot like Richard Jewel, the rent-a-cop from Atlanta who was investigated heavily for the Olympic Park Bombing. Private security is not something I am interested in period as a property manager for the reasons mentioned above about taking the de facto safety of folks into my own bosom. When I post soemone who may or may not be fully trained for protection and prevention at the door of my establishment, it gives people the illusion that all incidents will be prevented. I recently had a string of gang related incidents here and am working with the local PD as well as all business in the complex in order that we do not have repeat perfromances, but it never crossed my mind to hire someone with t stick or gun to do people's thinking for them.

My ususal reponse from someone who wants my Endura is that they may not have it and i am now leaving, taking my $$ with me. I am polite about these things, for the last thing I really need is a brawl with a BAW (see Dick Marcinko vocabulary) of a security guard, but no one is going to replace my safety with their own brand.