selecting a battle rifle

Runs With Scissors

Runs With Scissors

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Dec 3, 2000
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I'm wantin' some input from y'all more military rifle savvy folks...

I've made a deal with my son, he gets through elementary and middle school without falling off the Honor Roll, his mother and I buy him a top quality military rifle. Lookin' at spending $2,000-$2,500 on the package. So far he's about half way there. Such rifles aren't getting any cheaper, so the wife and I are thinking about picking it up in the next month or two and putting it in storage. They aren't getting any cheaper or easier to find. Also, if he falls off the Honor Roll Daddy gets to keep said rifle. (I'd much rather give it to him though)

The main choices seem to be M1 Garand, M1A, or AR-15

M-1 Garand has definitely got clean handling characteristics, and plenty of neatness. way far neat, and definitely gettin' harder to come by.

M1A is my personal favorite. Like an M-1 Garand but a little more accuracy than most, and detachable mags. He's a large, strong kid for his age, so it shouldn't be a problem for him to shoot by his Freshman year. Thinking about the M1A loaded package, with maybe a decent Leupold Scope.

AR-15 would serve him very well in his youth. light handling, light kicking, and he can modify it to suit his daily mood for all of eternity. The current Smith & Wesson's are a well finished, tight looking rifle. makes most Bushmasters I see these days look like they were picked from a scrap heap. Any other input on AR-15 manufacturers? Maybe Wilson Combat or Les Baer?

In the background lurks FN-Fal's, M-96 Expeditionary rifles, etc. Not interested in any H&K rifles, Colt AR's, or AK's And looking for classy stuff. an old Enfield and a billion rounds of ammo won't cut it on this one. Assuming the boy gets it, I want it to be a very special reward he never forgets.

Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.
 
i vote for the AR dad got me one when i turned 16 and i was the only one to shoot expert first time go at basic 2 years later.
 
As much as I criticize the M14 here and elsewhere, I'm an unabashed fan of it. It's what I learned to shoot on and will always have a place in my heart for that reason if nothing else.

That being said, two observations from my time as an RSO and SAAMI:

1. People pick up the pistol gripped rifle more quickly.
2. Most shooters, when familiar with both the M14 and M16, post consistantly higher scores with the M16.

The FAL fits in halfway between the M16 and the M14 -- more recoil than the AR's, better ergonomics than those old 14's.

What level of instruction will your boy be receiving? There's a reason that I ask.
 
Thanks for asking about the training- good thought prompt.

This year definitely a hunters safety course. After that, it'll be awhile. It's really up to him whether or not to shoot competitively in 4-H or something. about the time he gets older and recieves forementioned rifle, I would like to send him to a level one or introductory type class at one of the more reputable training centers. The minimum age for alot of these training centers is a consideration.

Basic competency and above average marksmanship are a given. How far he'll actually pursue shooting remains to be seen. I know he likes the history and nostalgia of alot of rifles, and knows more about WWII weapons than most adults. I'll just have to wait and see whether it goes from a didactic interest to a more pragmatic one.
 
.308- FN-FAL variant. The FAL/SLR/L1 is a lot more "modular" than the M14, so it's easier to make changes. Quality mags are much less expensive. It's easier to scope well.

The FAL is the equivalent of giving your son a good muscle car- it's already great, but it's also a good base to build from or modify.

The Kel-Tec RFB looks like it's going to be a truly great- perhaps even breakthrough- rifle, but it may be a year down the road, and its bugs are not known.

My buddy Byron swore by the HK-91, and had one for years...but after I traded him my G1 (FAL variant- I had another already), he quickly sold off his HK! And this from a man who doesn't usually believe in selling firearms. Your son may eventually want something else, but I've never heard anyone regret having a FAL.

John
 
RWS, I don't know as much 1st hand about all the choices you mentioned, but I do spend a considerable amount of time in our local gun shop talking about them. I've shot them all, but I'm not one to pretend I know about em cuz I shot 'em, ya know. Since it's such a personal choice, with long lasting results, I'd find the gun nut that you know (everyone knows one) that has all those and shot em one and all to decide.

The boys at the shop all agree that Bushmaster, Armalite, and Colts all cost extra for the names stamped on 'em. The DPMS AR-14 was voted gun of the year in 06', and they're $500 less than any of the aformentioned, and as good if not better out of the box IMHO.
 
I vote for an M1A with a really nice stock. It is a very capable battle rifle and at the same time, it possesses the lines and color of a fine hunting rifle. A really nice stock can make an M1A look like it has nothing to do with the military. Beauty in a weapon is something that ought to be considered, I think. Girls like wood...
 
FriendofBill's said:
RWS, I don't know as much 1st hand about all the choices you mentioned, but I do spend a considerable amount of time in our local gun shop talking about them. I've shot them all, but I'm not one to pretend I know about em cuz I shot 'em, ya know. Since it's such a personal choice, with long lasting results, I'd find the gun nut that you know (everyone knows one) that has all those and shot em one and all to decide.

The boys at the shop all agree that Bushmaster, Armalite, and Colts all cost extra for the names stamped on 'em. The DPMS AR-14 was voted gun of the year in 06', and they're $500 less than any of the aformentioned, and as good if not better out of the box IMHO.
Click to expand...

Let me guess. . . the boys at the shop are selling DPMS? :D

I've asked about them and heard nothing positive. . .

This link was given as evidence. . . http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthread...33104&Words=DPMS&topic=&Search=true#Post33104
 
DPMS will probably work just great as a range gun, but I understand it's still not approved for government contracts...like FN or Colt, for instance.
 
My vote goes to a Wilson Combat AR. If the quality is half as good as the .45automatics they build, they will be superb. Bill
 
RWS,
I am going to charge off in another direction... I happen to LOVE the M1 Garand and the M1A but for a base rifle for his shooting pelasure and something to be remembered- I say get in touch with George Gardner and GAPrecision.net.
One option might be one of his bolt actions with custom serial number- using your sons initials and year he earns the rifle.
Another would be a custom built off of the AR10 platform. You could give him the 20" precision GAP for target shooting & he could later add a chrome lined barreled upper for true "battle" status or add other cartridges for hunting i.e. 243, 260, 7mm-08 or even 300 RSAUM/300 WSM(a little problematic in the WSM).

Just another direction to consider.
www.gaprecision.net

Bill
 
Last year the NRA awarded rifle of year to a AR .308, a DPMS

Dave says more people in the service score higher with an .223 AR over a M1A; I'd think because of recoil. The military's own studies bare this out. I believe a highly modified and tricked out AR will outscore a M14, I don't believe many as issued AR's will.

I don't know the answer to this one. I do know I sold my Garands and AR's and still have my M1A.

A couple years ago the editors of American Rifleman wondered if the FN/FAL was behind the M1A/M14 in accuracy because more effort had been put into making the M1 accurate than the FN, but that customizing the FN aftermarket might change this.

munk
 
I have a MOA FAL rifle.

(I actually have a picture with a .3" group, but that was fired single-loading rounds, since those rounds were too long for magazine feed.)

My friend Edmund Rowe, firearms trainer and firearm collector, has two M1A's, last I heard. One is a heavy, expensive accurized version with good glass. Edmund says the M1A is very hard on scopes, though I don't recall why.

(edit)The XM-8 was tested, and judged to not offer a significant enough improvement over the M16 platform. The SCAR, however, is supposed to be offered in a civilian-legal platform. :)

J
 
Les Baer varmit 223....tack driver and I mean tack driver as I
shoot the tacks out of the targets at 100 yards after I finish
shooting the centers and other spots out of the paper targets.

Ammo is cheap also.

And no gun is more enjoyable to shoot than one that is accurate.
No matter what caliber.

Mine is outfitted with a Burris 4 x 16
 
SA58 / STG58 from DSArms OR M1A with Sage stock.


If you opt for the Stoner platform, please get a second upper chambered for at least 6.8 SPC.

If it was me doing the shooting, I would want the target to KNOW, big time, it has been hit with a COM/torso shot if I had to go out to distances of 300+ meters. And that is to say on any thing larger than a Coyote.


P.S.
I also love the Garand for it's undeniable signifigance in US and world history.
Just my view.
 
I had a 2 MOA FAL rifle from Springfield Armory, but it would stay at 2 MOA all day long regardless of how hot the barrel got. One thing I will say about it is that when it slam-fired and blew to hail with Winchester ammo, I was not injured.

The Springfield Armory gunsmith who examined its remains said that is to be expected from them occasionally, but it happens more frequently with the Springfield M1A and Garand products for some reason (the weaker firing pin spring was his speculation). Anyway, there is no longer any room in my gun safe for gas-operated stuff due to this experience.
 
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