selecting a battle rifle

FWIW, as everyone has an opinion as to what brand to get I'll just say that should your choice be an AR15 rifle:

1. make certain it is a chrome lined mil-spec 4150 1/7 twist barrel, (so that he can shoot the heavier weight 75 & 77grn rounds thru it - as they are far more lethal than the 55grn pills - but the cheap 55grn ammo will still shoot great thru the 1/7 twist).

The A3 flat-top models allow for great options in the optic department - even if ya get it w/ the detachable carry handle A2 sight.

Sticking with these requirements will narrow your choices to the higher quality makers which I'd list as Colt, Bushmaster, LMT, BCM & CMMG.
 
If it was me I would buy my Boy a USGI M1 Garand. A gift like this should have meaning beyond the hardware.

The M1 Garand because of its history would be a excellent focal point for the two of you to explore history and talk about the values and burdens that define a good Citizen and Human being. These things are more important to the welfare and growth of your son than having a rifle to compete with, that he could buy for himself later.

Your focus should be on developing the man not the man’s hardware. Skills he learns on the Garand are fully transferable to other rifles. There will be other rifles to purchase for eternity, but the days of quality Garands are numbered.

In truth it does not really matter what you buy for him. It’s what you GIVE him that matters. It’s about your legacy with your son.


My vote is that you and your son share the experience of a Garand.
 
Il like the Fal and Stgw 58,unbelievable reliable but most of all a vintage Mauser Gewehr 98 unused also pristine.
 
Les Baer is coming out with an AR that is in 6.5 Grendel. I would buy this for your son considering that Black Hills, wolf, and alexander arms is loading ammo for this caliber. Les Baer ARs always shoot under MOA and are quality rifles. He can always buy an upper that is .223 for shooting cheap and use the Grendel for shooting out to 1000yds. My $.02
 
munk said:
Dave says more people in the service score higher with an .223 AR over a M1A; I'd think because of recoil. The military's own studies bare this out. I believe a highly modified and tricked out AR will outscore a M14, I don't believe many as issued AR's will.
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There are a lot of reasons. The recoil's friendlier, the straightline layout is friendlier, the ergonomics are friendlier, the sights are far easier to figure out, etc. I don't want to toss any insults around but one can be a real slob with their technique and still post good scores on the 16. (I should know -- I'm one of them.) That doesn't work with the M14. I suspect that this is the real reason the scores went up...the thing's just plain easier to shoot overall. I used to dread M14 classes because I knew that there'd be a lot of reshoots and failures to qualify -- more than usual, anyway.

I haven't made up my mind yet on the inherant accuracy of the two. On paper the M16 ought to be more accurate and the scores tend to be higher, but whether this is because of better theoretical or practical accuracy isn't apparent. I suspect that it has far more to do with practical accuracy ("shootability") than anything else.

That being said, accurizing an M16 is easy; accurizing an M14 is not. I know very little about accurizing an FAL and won't comment on that.
 
I've heard tricked out AR's are taking away the intermediate target records from the M1A just as that rifle once took them from the Garand.


In all my reading, though, there is still a chorus of folks who believe the .308 is one of the most inherently accurate cartridges ever made.



munk
 
HMMMMM, AR platform is more condusive to accurate shooting but .223 is judged weak by many..... I've GOT IT!!! An AR10 format!!! Sorry, feeling a little full of myself... :) Just selaed a good deal.
Bill
 
I agree with Spectre and Justabuyer both in terms of my sentiments and experience. The FN-FAL, particularly a tricked out one, is about as good as it gets IMHO ( all respects to the M1A:thumbup:) However, an M1 is something special, beyond being a great rifle.
Overall, a rightous parental decision. A great way to honor the 2nd amendment, I'd say, and the building of the right kind of relationship with your son:cool: .
 
Great post justabuyer. Wish we still had chiclets to give out...

I understand the choices, I would opt for the M1 for justabuyers reasons. M1A would be second choice. Not a big fan of AR type due to direct gas system, caliber, etc. The new gas piston variants might warrant some investigation. Not knowing the nomenclature, they may have been mentioned already. OTOH, they may be too new for any reliability history.

It took me a while to recover from that bit about rejecting an Enfield and a million rounds of ammo though!

:D

Tom
 
Chances are that evil assault rifles will be banned again in the foreseable future. You can build just about any kind of 5.56mm rifle out of it or even go exotic with something like the 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel
The Grendel is ideal if you want a long range precision platform.
 
DPMS was talked about earlier. I have one and like it. It is picky about being clean and well oiled, but so were my M16's when I was in the Army. Good rifle for the $$.
 
I've only heard good things about those DPMS's myself diceman. Have you put a lot of lead through it? That link Rat Finkelstien provided was one person's experience with them under heavy use. Have you done anything similiar?

The NRA named it gun of the year. How bad could it be?

Any thoughts about the HK-91 clones from JLD? I've been told they are weld for weld copies. They are supposed to stand up to abuse, shoot muddy, and generally kick @ss. I guess you just can't trick them out the same way you can the AR's right?
 
My experience with the M16/AR15 is that they won't feed reliably when they're dirty or full of carbon. They get dirty pretty fast. My DPMS is in 7.62x39 - the Russian round (same as AK or SKS). My only complaint is that you can't get good mags in 7.62x39. And, I chose that cartridge because it has always been so cheap to shoot - but - you can hardly find a good deal on it anymore b/c everyone (good guys and bad guys - not us though) are using it in Iraq. Quality wise, I think that my rifle is more solid in all areas than my Colt or FN M-16's from the Army. I've only killed prarie dogs with it so far, but it did very well. I probably put about 500 rounds of cheap (and dirty) Wolf ammo through it that day with no issues - I had a misfeed or two, but some oil took care of it. I really like AR's in that they are simple to maintain, accurate, and easy to shoot. Just keep 'em clean! I shot a 1/2" or so group at 100m while sighting in this summer, off of a front sandbag (no rear). Here's a picture below (along w/ a couple Glocks and my SKS) I paid $700 for mine, slightly used.
resizeguns0rb.jpg
 
diceman said:
I paid $700 for mine, slightly used.
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Did you get that out at the Axman? I used to live in Missoula myself untill summer '01. I got all my guns and gear from them. They're the best. You all have one of the nicest shooting ranges there are up there. The guy who won the IPSC nationals that were held there in 2000 said the same thing, and he's shot at almost every range you could name. I miss that place, especially having the practical pistol club shed to poke around in for fun stuff to shoot.

I digress. So the rumor of those DPMS's shooting out of the mud are false, huh? That makes sense for such a tight rifle. I like the "idea" of the .308 in a tacticool rifle, and have been leaning towards the JLD HK-91 clone myself. Any reviews? The guy trying to sell me one gave it great reviews all around, but of course he would. Anyone have one?
 
I've only been in Missoula for about 6 months - I got this over in Miles City (where my parents live) last summer. 7.62x39 isn't the same as .308 Win is it? Its a pretty short cartridge, in fact, the lower reciever on mine is the same as the .223. The .308 has a considerably larger magazine well. Two more things that I don't like about this rifle, which would improve its reliability - a dust cover (over the ejection port, like on the M16 and most AR's), and a forward bolt assist. The dust cover would obviously do its job, and when I have a failure to fully feed, I think that I could just tap the forward assist and be good to go most of the time. Anyways, I'm liking Missoula so far (I'm a returning college student at UofM - recently finished up w/ the Army). Let me know if you're ever passing through, we'll have to go shoot or chop something!
 
If you're going to drop 2K on a rifle, get a trick M1A. Worth every penny.:thumbup:
 
I'm leaning towards the AR at this point. I just remembered yesterday that I have an uncle that's been building AR's for a long time. Not talking about slapping a Bushmaster together with parts from Shotgun News, but milling his own recievers, parts, etc. From what I understand, he's built some pretty fine shootin' guns. What could be cooler than an AR made by a relative, and rewarded from yer old man? Not to mention the adaptability of the platform and the fact that parts for the gun will be the very last to dry up.

The M1A has been very tempting in that it's my own personal favorite, and was my fathers favorite rifle in Vietnam.

The M1 Garand certainly has history and nostalgia in it's corner. But my son spoke well when he voiced his sentiments: "I think an AR would be a better weapon, but an M1 Garand would still be neat just to have"

I'll make the final decision and purchase very soon. Sadly, I don't think the coming years are going to be very gun friendly at all in our society. Better buy his rifle now, and hope he can hang on to it. (once he recieves it, of course)
 
Justabuyer said:
If it was me I would buy my Boy a USGI M1 Garand. A gift like this should have meaning beyond the hardware.

The M1 Garand because of its history would be a excellent focal point for the two of you to explore history and talk about the values and burdens that define a good Citizen and Human being. These things are more important to the welfare and growth of your son than having a rifle to compete with, that he could buy for himself later.

Your focus should be on developing the man not the man’s hardware. Skills he learns on the Garand are fully transferable to other rifles. There will be other rifles to purchase for eternity, but the days of quality Garands are numbered.

In truth it does not really matter what you buy for him. It’s what you GIVE him that matters. It’s about your legacy with your son.



My vote is that you and your son share the experience of a Garand.
Click to expand...
I would add to this that the M-1 Garand was the rifle that kept us free during World War II and Korea and was described by no less a warrior than General George Patton as "the greatest battle implement ever devised." The history and the legacy of this weapon would make it my choice as the gift for my son, were that what he wanted. If what you find needs work on the stock, you and he can do the refinishing together and that will make it even more of a personal treasure to him.
 
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