Self Defense / Fighting Knife

[knifedaddy84]

Originally posted by YoungCutter
Depends on how paranoid ya are I guess... as I'm on my way to going into the law enforcement profession, I've made it a personal priority to avoid having any sort of criminal record.

The best thing about that career decision is once you are a LEO you can pretty much carry whatever you want whenever you want.

 

[jim burke]

You should look for a knife designed by a maker who has that kind of experience or a colabration with someone who does.

Thanks, Jim Burke, www.burkeknives.com

 

[crazy nicky]

Originally posted by MW740
Of all the knives that I have ever handled, I would have to say this is the one that I would pick for a fight. The weight and the balance just feel great.

What about the fullsize Whisper?? That knife is awesome as well...I keep one by my bed. I just bought a Wisp from Greco. He makes some great fighting knives.

 

[R. Lemmen]

Dam! I had to start this thread just as work started getting hectic!:grumpy:

OK then, while I have a chance.

Without getting into specific knives, here is (in no specific order) what I would value in a knife designed specifically for fighting / self defense:
1) Point made for penetration. As I mentioned earlier, stabbing type attacks feature promenantly in my style.
2) Double edge or at least sharpened swedge for back-cuts and trap cuts in reverse grip.
3) Thin edge for cutting, thick spine for toughness. I am currently in love with hollow grinds (but that might change tomorrow )
4) 3-4" blade length. Long enough to do damage but short enough for concealment.
5) Simple multi-grip handle. Something that would allow both forward and reverse grip. Big enough guard or choil for grip, but not so big as to get in the way. I have never seen anyone parry effectively with a short knife, so wide guards really don't make too much sense. (Actually, I personally don't think its a great idea to parry with anything less than a 10" blade, if you like your fingers that is. )
6) Skull crusher pommel for in-close and groundwork. (Anyone else notice that groundwork is a totally different animal when knives get involved! )
6) Concealable multi-carry sheath or sheath system. I don't like a knife that dictates to me how I am to carry it. I should be able to customize my carry based on my dress and activity.
7) Fixed blade. Usually more reliable and usually faster than a folder.

I like a lot of other knives and wouldn't restrict my purchases based on those criteria, but this is what I would want in a purpose built knife.

Ah well. Back to the grind.

 

[Boink]

Originally posted by R. Lemmen
D

Without getting into specific knives, here is (in no specific order) what I would value in a knife designed specifically for fighting / self defense:......

I like a lot of other knives and wouldn't restrict my purchases based on those criteria, but this is what I would want in a purpose built knife.

Ah well. Back to the grind.

What you described sounds remarkably like a Polkowski Companion, or one of his other similarly styled custom fixed blades.

 

[litework]

My philosophy differs from most when it comes to a defensive knife. I prefer a folder to a fixed blade. There is no doubt a fixed blade knife is stronger but its size and appearance makes it too inconvenient for me to use as a self defense knife. I carry a folder every day. My co-workers aren't alarmed by it, and it's convenient. If I feel threatened, I can carry my closed folder in my hand without drawing attention. A MOD Hornet or CQD II is ideal. A fixed blade that I leave at home or in the truck isn't worth anything to me, and it certainly isn't a self defense knife. It's not going to come if I whistle for it. When hiking, camping, or hunting I am going to carry a fixed blade; it isn't cumbersome compared to my equipment, and a fixed blade isn't alarming in this type of setting.

 

[.45acp]

R. Lemmen,

If you could accommodate a 5" blade, the Randall No. 1 in 5" meets just about all your criteria. The commando grip offered works in the saber, foil and reverse grip. IMO.

Great knives backed up by one of the oldest firms around.

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Andrew
I believe the primary advantage is that you can stab more effectively than with a single edged blade.

I think it would take a machine to be able to tell the difference between The Rinaldi Disciple and a well-built double edged knife in the "effortless thrust" measurement. I don't think you could tell much difference by hand, this knife thrusts effortlessly. Further, the common screwdriver has basically been Edged Weapon #2 when it comes to actual fatalities on the street for years, even if it has changed, it was up there for quite some time. In a world like that, I don't think it makes any difference.

You can also slash more effectively because you don't have to worry about which side the edge is on.

One of the first things anyone learns when using a knife combatively is simply rolling the palm over from palm up to palm down, palm down to palm up. It almost amuses me when people say this, this is the "Swish-swish" comment. Hold the knife out and "Swish-swish" like a paint brush. That's primarily a quarter-saber grip movement that I don't think is the way to go anyway.

Originally posted by Ken Cox
The double-edged knife allows cutting from the inside out as well as from the outside in. It also precludes most wrist grabs since one can cut with both edges.

With a single-edged knife, one must rotate the wrist and lift the elbow in order to cut both ways, and in the end, the knife will describe a flat figure with its point.

In contrast, imagine holding a double-edged knife in a paintbrush grip and now cut sideways, back and forth.

The same goes for up and down and in and out.

I assume everyone can intuit what a paintbrush grip with a double-edged knife looks like.

Quarter-saber. I think it is very easy to rotate up and cut the wrist just as it is very easy to set it there and seat it with body weight and rip it free with Pakal - reverse grip edge facing in.

With all respect, I think those who declare a single-edged knife the equal of a double-edged knife do so because they live in a community that has criminalized double-edged knives and they want to rationalize the loss of the edge.

As I have told others before, Pakal makes a choice. If you have a single edged knife, how can you use it most effectively? If I use a double edged knife in reverse grip, the thrust is going to be primary anyway, the edge facing in will be secondary and the edge facing out will be tertiary.

The cops want double-edged knives illegal because they make any idiot dangerous.

I state all the above as a humble opinion and I welcome any corrections to my world view as I can only profit from learning.

Most of the laws on the books with regard to double edged knives (daggers) and true stilettos (poniards) date back much farther than our current times. They were more about banning popular weapons of the time - much like the 1958 Switchblade Law(s). I believe the period in our country where the dagger and stiletto was targeted would be in the early 1900s when there were "Mad Anarchists." I do believe Levine addressed that in one of his many articles.

Personally, I think an idiot is dangerous with whatever they pick up, single or double edge, or just a simple (and "true") stiletto or spike poniard. With screwdriver or clawhammer/BPH. When powers gather to ban something, sometimes law enforcement aids that but it mostly done to get votes from a fearful populace that has fallen for drivel.

Crisis creation, create the crisis (Switchblade Mania) and then provide the solution: ban something.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Excellently put Don, I couldn't agree more.

By the way, good to see you still hanging around these parts.

 

[Sticky]

"Crisis creation, create the crisis (Switchblade Mania) and then provide the solution: ban something"

Dam Don, That's money!!! Can i borrow that sometime? hehehe

 

[Trace Rinaldi]

Don, I always wondered why I saw Black youths in Oakland wearing screw-drivers around thier necks on chains..HA!!... I knew it couldnt be for thier utility purposes!!

 

[R. Lemmen]

I think it is important to note that the differences we are talking about in terms of knife design and fighting styles are quite minute. Any sharp object can be dangerous if used effectively. Having a 10" blade bowie with a sharpened swedge may give you an advantage but it does not make you impervious to a maniac with a sharpened screw driver. I would hazard a guess that most knife assaults are perpetrated using kitchen or utility knives. The design of knife that I mentioned earlier gives me the greatest number of options for self defense techniques. This thread, for me at least, was about theoretical situations and optimal tool design.

My style of use for the double edged blade has nothing to do with the "paintbrush" technique (pretty thin if you ask me). One (of several) illustrative techniques is the follow through on a trap cut. Used in reverse grip, the knife is used to trap the opponents arm and one sharpened edge cuts into the inside of the forearm. The natural reaction is for the opponent to draw the arm into the body for protection. Without having to rotate the knife to expose another sharp edge, you follow the arm back in for a slash followed by a hammerfist stab. Simple, effective and easy to do under stress.

One of my benchmarks for fighting techniques is "could I do this under stress?" In a confrontation, with adrenalin coursing through the system, and most likely having to deal with an unforseen circumstance, will I use this technique as a natural reaction to the threat? This is self defense, the attacker chooses the time and place. When being jumped from behind by some drugged out loser in an alley, I can't see my natural reaction to be some complicated contortions. Simple, gross muscle movements, practiced ad-nauseum to make them as natural as possible, are my best bet for real self defense.

That's also what I like about the "reverse punch" stab. If a martial arts technique is an answer to a question (situation), then the reverse punch is the single best answer to the most questions. It won't be the solution to every situation, but it will certainly solve a heck of a lot of them. Put a knife in the hand (change the warhead, as Peter Urban used to say) and the reverse punch becomes a powerful stab.

I'll mention again that these are the theories that guide my training. I never have and I hope that I never will put them to the test.

 

[Simonp]

Originally posted by miguel_SF
It would look like the Spyderco Gunting, which is the best combination knife/impact tool I've seen, and the blade is exactly what I want for SD - a razor sharp spear point. As a bonus, the Compression Lock is such a clever design and so obviously strong that I often find myself staring at it in awe (yes, I stare at most of my knives, but not as much). I'm still not completely sold on the "ramp" above the Spyderhole. I realize that removing the ramp would defeat some of the most unique design features of the knife, but they are features that I don't train with and that I wouldn't use in a confrontation. I just need to smash things with the butt of the handle and cut things with the blade. I will leave the kinetic openings and joint locks to those who know what they're doing. Within a week of getting the Gunting (my first and only Spyderco so far) it has become my EDC.

Qualities that the Gunting delivers: legal to carry concealed (in CA anyway), hefty for effective strikes, excellent blade shape for both stabs and slashes, excellent retention because of handle shape, super-strong lock, effective in a variety of grip styles.

Even if fixed blades were legal to carry concealed here in CA, I would probably go with the Gunting for its concealability and striking ability.

miguel

I'm curious about your post, I really like the gunting as well although I feel it really is a better tool for a LEO or someone who is looking to stop and contain an attacker rather than a true self defense weapon.

Why worry about concealment? Just carry a FB openly and you have the better blade and you are legal-I am not dressed if my Polkowski isnt in its sheath on me.

Take care & Stay Safe

 

[steve-in-kville]

Has anyone suggested the Gryphon M-10 utility/boot knife? Or the M-30A1? I don't own these (yet), but they appear to be a serious SD knife.


steve