Seller seeks tax and PP fee evasion... bad taste

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FriskyDingo

FriskyDingo

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I just wanted to put this note up there, I think it's dishonest for business' to come on our forum, selling knives and insisting on being paid via the gift option to evade income tax and paypal fees. Paypal isn't a non profit company, they offer a service which many people utilize because it's convenient and safe and charge a small commission in return for that service. Not only is it despicable for a business to come on here with a non-dealer account to sell knives and insist on payment be as a gift, robbing paypal of their commission, when the reason sited is because they have "business acount and I have to pay taxes on money taken in for goods" that crosses the line with me. I must be the only person in this country still paying my taxes, however high they are, because I'm an honest person. I don't like paying taxes but evading them is wrong. I for one won't do business with this person because there's a moral rift here. Evading taxes and robbing paypal of their fees even when I paid the fees is criminal.
 
FriskyDingo said:
I must be the only person in this country still paying my taxes, however high they are, because I'm an honest person. I don't like paying taxes but evading them is wrong. I for one won't do business with this person because there's a moral rift here. Evading taxes and robbing paypal of their fees even when I paid the fees is criminal.
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Very well said. I just posted about this a few posts down. Using the gift option when you are selling something is stealing, plain and simple. If somebody asks you to use it, think about what you are trusting them with after you have just allowed them to steal from Paypal and YOU (taxes don't belong to the government, they are YOUR dollars).

About the taxes: I was just ranting to my wife about the "I owed the IRS $100,000 and I only had to pay $5,000..." commercials that are on all the time now. If you don't like what the tax money is going towards, vote or do more, don't skimp on your taxes! I am Conservative to the bone, and I don't agree with where the majority of our taxes are going but I'm also a Christian and make an attempt at being a gentleman and tax evasion is sinful and cowardly.
 
FriskyDingo said:
I just wanted to put this note up there, I think it's dishonest for business' to come on our forum, selling knives and insisting on being paid via the gift option to evade income tax and paypal fees. Paypal isn't a non profit company, they offer a service which many people utilize because it's convenient and safe and charge a small commission in return for that service. Not only is it despicable for a business to come on here with a non-dealer account to sell knives and insist on payment be as a gift, robbing paypal of their commission, when the reason sited is because they have "business acount and I have to pay taxes on money taken in for goods" that crosses the line with me. I must be the only person in this country still paying my taxes, however high they are, because I'm an honest person. I don't like paying taxes but evading them is wrong. I for one won't do business with this person because there's a moral rift here. Evading taxes and robbing paypal of their fees even when I paid the fees is criminal.
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Are talking about this type of activity in general or is there a specific seller?
 
Both. Had an unfortunate run in with a seller tonight that prompted this rant on the general behavior.
 
i'm reaching the point where i really want to avoid anyone who either adds in the fee as a surcharge or demands i use the gift option (which i have never myself asked for).

risk v. reward. i would rather not lose my paypal account because of 3%. i figure if im selling a $500 knife, its worth $15 to have the convenience of receipt of funds immediately and to have the usps shipping service readily available. i can print and package everything at home then just a quick run to the po to drop everything off.

i dont know if these issues have become more common, but i am certainly more aware of it. especially with the gift option available.
 
PayPal "gift" option automatically negates any chance you have of filing a dispute, so if the seller decides not to ship your item you have no recourse. Your credit card may not even let you do a chargeback if you send a cash "gift."

You need to trust that seller 100% and be willing to write off that money if he decides to burn you. Personally, I'd rather pay the extra fee just in case the package is lost or damaged in shipment. That way there is no hard feelings either way.

Anyone who INSISTS on a "gift" transfer is a bit shady IMHO. I've only done this once, and it was for a questionable item being shipped to a Third World Country with a buyer I'd never dealt with before. Ended up paying over $30 for shipping, but he got the item and was happy.
 
Agreed. I admit it I used to ask for a "gift" discount all the time, but personally after being burned once I'd rather not touch fire again. I wrote the guy off because he insisted on being paid as a gift so he could avoid fees, so I paid the fees then he refunded my money because he didn't want to pay taxes. That was the last straw. I'm sick of people doing this, when I want to buy a piece of gear, I'd rather take my business to an honest person, and I'll make sure that dishonest people know that.
 
PayPal sucks, and anyone who wants to stick up for PayPal sucks even worse. :)

That said, anyone who wants to weasel out of their obligation to pay what is owed to the company that helps process their monetary transaction is a bum. Pay your 3%. The sky isn't going to come crashing down on top of you. Rubbing your hands together with the self-satisfaction that you saved $5 makes you an a**hole. Congratulations! You get an extra gallon of gas at your next fill-up! Way to be a cheap-ass!
 
i dont mind paying the fees for the added security. the people who use the gift option are just taking advantange of the honest people who pay said fees.
 
"Agreed. I admit it I used to ask for a "gift" discount all the time, but personally after being burned once I'd rather not touch fire again." FD, you're an idiot for even posting such tripe - and if this was elsewhere on BF, I'd call you an a$$hat too...

You don't ever have the right to 'change your wicked ways', then become sanctimonious - that there is downright hypocritical as my uncle Joe-Bob on the bayou would say...to make matters worse, you started a self-righteous sanctimonious thread, then indicted yourself - what a dumbass.

You'd rather take your business to an an honest person? Someone, possibly, born again like yourself? WTF? For your hypocritical post above, I'm gonna nominate you for a phucktard award...:jerkit:

With regards to eBay, Paypal, and use fees in general; pay them as your conscious requires - accept them as part of doing business or not. If they really bug you that much, file a ficticious business name, start a business, work that business as hard as possible, and at the end of the year legally write-off those fees when you pay your taxes.

Moral and ethical (and legal) problems solved - without coming across as being a hypocritical dumbass. ;)
 
I've never heard of IRS subpoenaing PayPal, eBay, or Amazon. I suppose they could if you were running an online business making tens of thousands of dollars in profit each year, but for a handful of low dollar private transactions I don't see that happening.
 
I disagree.
As a buyer, I am more than willing to waive the buyer protection given me by PP if I know the seller.
And as a seller, I will only ship international if I get paid with a gift, because in case of a dispute PP will automatically rule against the seller if he cannot offer proof of delivery. Everyone knows that USPS tracking does not always work for Intl. destinations.
Moreover, using the gift option is not "stealing" from PP, it is just waiving their buyer protection service.
Are you stealing from Skype when making free calls? Do you pay your bank any fees when writing a check (if you do, you should consider changing banks)?
Like many online businesses, PayPal makes money on some services and loses money on some others, that's how the internet works. How do you think Western Union feels about PP offering free money transfers? I am sure they think somebody is "stealing" their business.

Now the tax evasion issue is something else, especially if it involves a dealer. It is wrong for a dealer to ask a buyer to help him evade paying taxes.
I think that there is a new requirement by the IRS that obliges businesses like PayPal to report account holders with more than $25.000 in sales, starting next year. I am not sure whether gift payments will be taken into account or not. One thing is sure, though, many people will start going back to the good ole' USPS MO.
 
Wow looks like I touched a nerve... Melvin I don't think we've even met before, but it seems you take not issue with my morals but issue with me. I'm a little confused as to why the profanity tho, it would seem I touched a nerve.

I doubt paypal would operate out of the goodness of their hearts if they made no profit. People take the service for granted methinks, theyre perfectly willing to just assume paypal will be around forever. If they don't make money they could easily go out of business... I understand the economy sucks but a buck 95 isn't going to put you out of business. BTW Lorenzo, Skype actually does have a "for profit" business that they sell, they have a teleconferencing service they sell to business' for telecommuting and they also charge for international calls.
 
LorenzoL got it right.

And Dingoberry, how in the Wide, Wide World of sports do you know what the seller declares as income to the IRS?

Seller's lucky he didn't have to do business with a self-appointed hall monitor like you.
 
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Man how much does integrity cost these days, 3% of a sale? I have problems with Paypal also, but and this is the big but, I entered into an agreement with Paypal to which I pledged my adherence to Paypal policies. I can express my concerns in other ways other than to save a few bucks, thus making my integrity worthless.You give your word to something, you need to keep it otherwise whats your worth as a human being. We all signed off on the Paypal user agreement and I for one value my integrity more than a few percentage points.
 
Friskyone,

You're right, I no more know you than you know me (in other words, we don't know each other, which is just fine with me) - but cha missed my point bud; while I don't have a problem with you; I do have a huge problem with what you posted above.

You said you'd done something in the past ("all the time", i.e. often), but no longer do (to wit: you publicly declared that you cheated Paypal out of their due of providing a service by asking for a 'discount'), but have sinced stopped such behavior - and then have the audacity to start a post, to call someone out, to call them dishonest, for the same behavior that you admit to having done in the past...

So no, I don't have a problem with you the person, per se - but I have a problem with your self-righteous, sanctimonious, hypocritical thread...a thread started just because you had a run in with someone over the same BS you admittedly used to pull. Kapish?

You can't have it both ways brother, that's not how confessional is supposed to work... ;)
 
I disagree with using paypal and not paying the fee, so I just don't buy from folks who insist on my using the gift option. I'm not trying to be sanctimonious about it, I just try to make sure my conduct is in line with what I claim my principles are.

I assume other folks on the forum are also old enough to make up their minds for themselves, and some obviously feel different than I do. I presume they will act in accordance with their beliefs just like I do.

No one ever said we all have to think and act the same way.
 
I will not buy with the gift option as I am buying not gifting I think it is tacky and wrong .I also do not like the "add 5% for paypal" and "add $5 for shipping" do the math it is a simple addition problem and it doesn`t make the price look better you are not a cell phone company you should not have fine print.
 
I feel,the transaction is between two people and the details of who how & when,how much,etc,should be detailed out in the deal & in agreement of both.
For the issue at hand,to ever get to a "rant",well,lay out your deal,price,etc & let the buyers dollar do the decisions
Just me

PS the last few knives I sold I just put a shipped price on there & the details were worked out as we went I had no problems
 
Melvin-Purvis said:
So no, I don't have a problem with you the person, per se - but I have a problem with your self-righteous, sanctimonious, hypocritical thread...a thread started just because you had a run in with someone over the same BS you admittedly used to pull. Kapish?

You can't have it both ways brother, that's not how confessional is supposed to work... ;)
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So over the course of 6 months one can't change their mind on it? I hadn't really thought of it critically until 6 months ago but when I sat down to think on it I changed my mind. I guess we as a society aren't used to people changing their mind on ethical issues...
 
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