Serious questions about 4034 steel

Hashishiin said:
Oh my, this really puts 4034 in perspective! That is hilarious, worse than 5cr15 😂
Cause it's one thing to buy 440-series equivs, AUS-8, AUS-10, I mess with all of that stuff, but this is where the difference between "budget" and "cheap" is shown.
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Comparing them on Zknives charts id really eye opening
 
Most big US knife companies turned to China production on their lower end models starting in the late 1990s. Cold Steel itself tried having the Trail Master made in China but terminated that contract in a short time due to "quality issues". They switched production to Taiwan, and most of their (better) product line is all Taiwan. Cold Steel did and continues to do some orders out of Italy. SOG followed the same approach, and Spyderco created a Byrd brand to separate their main line, from their Made in China line, a rather clever approach. In the mid-1990s China's Yangjiang City production exceeded Japan;s Seki City production. But since then no Western knife compsany has used China production for their top of the line models.
In our third year of Covid with geopolitics running out of control, suppliers and supply lines are being reassed for all products, so I wouldn't be surprised if the pattern of knife companies turning to China isn't reaching, or hasn't reached the end. In business, cost isn't everything.
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Hashishiin said:
It isn't the new norm, though, because I can get all types of steels for the price.
Take me for example, you know all those great Chinese knives? I do not buy Chinese, so I can't get all that good Kizer, Civivi, Reate stuff, but those are downright super-steels for cheap, well-heat-treated and truthful companies.
Even taking that whole line off the table, anyone buying CS budget is obviously cool with buying Chinese so they can buy better stuff for a better price. You can get K390 from Spyderco for 70-so bucks - pure performance! D2 from Ontario at about 38, less if on sale. You can get a Taiwanese Cold Steel with an actual steel on there. I can name you ten types of steel that you can get for cheaper that are better.

I just don't get it. I love Cold Steel but I am not under the impression that GSM is in it for anything else than to make money, no passion for knives, and they will eventually cheapen/China it all.
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Yes, you can get 3" of K390 for $70, that's irrelevant to this discussion. We're talking about a fixed blade at 18" overall length, that's $100 just for the barstock if you're shopping for high alloy steel.
The 12" Warcraft Tanto is practically running into the design territory of swords and in that industry they almost never use steel with more than 0.5% carbon.
If you want a big knife to beat on then 4034 is practically ideal, you won't find anything better.

Personally I'd prefer 14C28N but that's still a compromise on toughness that I'm personally willing to make, for the average user it's really hard to argue against 4034.

The only real question here is why these knives are priced the way they are.
 
Joshua J. said:
Yes, you can get 3" of K390 for $70, that's irrelevant to this discussion. We're talking about a fixed blade at 18" overall length, that's $100 just for the barstock if you're shopping for high alloy steel.
The 12" Warcraft Tanto is practically running into the design territory of swords and in that industry they almost never use steel with more than 0.5% carbon.
If you want a big knife to beat on then 4034 is practically ideal, you won't find anything better.

Personally I'd prefer 14C28N but that's still a compromise on toughness that I'm personally willing to make, for the average user it's really hard to argue against 4034.

The only real question here is why these knives are priced the way they are.
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Are you seriously comparing plain carbon steels with modern super steels and alloyed steels?

And no, 5160 has more than 0.50% carbon.
1080 - the same
1075 - also over 0.50%
80CrV2 - around 0.80% on average...
And that is IF the smith is using plain carbon steels. So smiths ARE using the steel with more carbon than 4034 garbage, despite the fact actual swords are much longer than this POS.

Cold Steel Kukri at lenght and thickness simply does not enter tne sword category, meaning they COULD or better said SHOULD have used an actual high carbon steel, and not medium carbon steel.

Speaking of average user - an average user won't spend that kind of money on a knife!

And except toughness there's also a thing called yield sthrenght, meaning the maximum ammount of force material can take without permanent deformation.
Silly putty is tough as hell, sure, won't break, but also won't hold up to anything.

So theoretically, 4034 is tough, but will bend... 14C28N is "less tough" but won't roll or bend as easily, and will actually hold an edge.

Take a look at Extrema ratio, they use high carbon stainless steel for large knives that hold up to actual hard use, and will hold the edge for long.


There is no real justification for either using 4034 or selling it at such price, except good old greed... real reason is "we think our customers are dumb and we like money"
 
J Joshua J. is not incorrect in stating that 4034 is good for resisting abuse. It's run soft and very corrosion resistant. It is also, as he mentioned, priced way to high.

I don't think L LostCause you two are far off in agreement.

We are all astonished and saddened at the steel choice for blades that "were" premium production blades.
 
MolokaiRider said:
J Joshua J. is not incorrect in stating that 4034 is good for resisting abuse. It's run soft and very corrosion resistant. It is also, as he mentioned, priced way to high.

I don't think L LostCause you two are far off in agreement.

We are all astonished and saddened at the steel choice for blades that "were" premium production blades.
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Knife at this price should first perform and resist abuse. Get any kind of mild stainless steel and it won't rust or break... it won't hold it's edge or cut well either but hey... if he's happy paying 200€ for something that just won't rust or snap in half - that's his problem. As for me, I expect actual performance.

Edge reflecting light just from touching chicken bone is unacceptable in my book.

1095, D2, 3V, 80CrV2 - none of them suffered damage even after being pressed to cut a bit into a bone, and I can bet you on anything you want that both, 3V and 80CrV2 are leagues ahead 4034 in toughness.
 
LostCause said:
Knife at this price should first perform and resist abuse. Get any kind of mild stainless steel and it won't rust or break... it won't hold it's edge or cut well either but hey... if he's happy paying 200€ for something that just won't rust or snap in half - that's his problem. As for me, I expect actual performance.

Edge reflecting light just from touching chicken bone is unacceptable in my book.

1095, D2, 3V, 80CrV2 - none of them suffered damage even after being pressed to cut a bit into a bone, and I can bet you on anything you want that both, 3V and 80CrV2 are leagues ahead 4034 in toughness.
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You need to read the posts made a bit more thoroughly.
 
LostCause said:
Knife at this price should first perform and resist abuse. Get any kind of mild stainless steel and it won't rust or break... it won't hold it's edge or cut well either but hey... if he's happy paying 200€ for something that just won't rust or snap in half - that's his problem. As for me, I expect actual performance.

Edge reflecting light just from touching chicken bone is unacceptable in my book.

1095, D2, 3V, 80CrV2 - none of them suffered damage even after being pressed to cut a bit into a bone, and I can bet you on anything you want that both, 3V and 80CrV2 are leagues ahead 4034 in toughness.
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Friend, you are correct that 4034 is inappropriate for use in Cold Steel premium knives.

However, it is not a terrible choice for inexpensive and very low priced choppers or dive knives.
 
Joshua J. said:
Yes, you can get 3" of K390 for $70, that's irrelevant to this discussion. We're talking about a fixed blade at 18" overall length, that's $100 just for the barstock if you're shopping for high alloy steel.
The 12" Warcraft Tanto is practically running into the design territory of swords and in that industry they almost never use steel with more than 0.5% carbon.
If you want a big knife to beat on then 4034 is practically ideal, you won't find anything better.

Personally I'd prefer 14C28N but that's still a compromise on toughness that I'm personally willing to make, for the average user it's really hard to argue against 4034.

The only real question here is why these knives are priced the way they are.
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Okay, just wanted to make sure we're talking about the large one. Ierno, man, I get big knives out of AUS-10, S35, 1095, 420HC, 3V... I want one in Cruwear. As to "why" they're priced this way? There's no question about it... GSM is cheap. There is no reason that is GOOD FOR US why GSM replaced what it did with 4034, it may WORK for us, but it isn't FOR us, if you feel me. That's the main problem to me.
 
Hashishiin said:
Okay, just wanted to make sure we're talking about the large one. Ierno, man, I get big knives out of AUS-10, S35, 1095, 420HC, 3V... I want one in Cruwear. As to "why" they're priced this way? There's no question about it... GSM is cheap. There is no reason that is GOOD FOR US why GSM replaced what it did with 4034, it may WORK for us, but it isn't FOR us, if you feel me. That's the main problem to me.
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Basically "Here's the shit steel instead of 3V for the price of 3V, we just saved shitload on machining and even more on cost of steel, but it'll probably work for you. And don't forget to take sharpening stone with you..."
 
LostCause said:
Basically "Here's the shit steel instead of 3V for the price of 3V, we just saved shitload on machining and even more on cost of steel, but it'll probably work for you. And don't forget to take sharpening stone with you..."
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This sums up the thread really well, man 😂
 
I don't get the prices on the Gurka Kukri's either steel is just two high in price. The 3V should be around 3 bills maybe and the 4034 model about a bill or so. Also, while their at it they need to make the blade a saber grind with a convex edge. I've see a few of these knives snapped at the handle and chipped out in big chips from bad heat treat or cheap steel. A flat ground blade for chopping is asking for a blade that gets stuck in wood and chips out and ends up snapping. Hell make them in 5160 saber ground with a good heat treat with good steel. Get rid of that cheap steel in a chopper blade.
 
XJ-linux said:
Would you pay the same for a 4034 blade as a 3V blade on a given model? Cold Steel believes you will.
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I think Cold Steel is betting on the fact people will say, "the Gurkha Kukri costs XX" and will never look at the steel. It's like Ford dropping an Escort drive train into a Mustang GT, and just assuming buyers will never look under the hood until after they've paid for it. And, this is a big one in the knife field, Cold Steel knows many, or maybe most, buyers of knives, especially certain designs, don't use them. Khukuri and swords are blades many people buy to hang on the wall, or swing around in their bathrobe😆. A Khukuri in 4034 is perfect for LARPing, but not chopping seasoned oak.

On another note, I have a "China Doll" Gurkha Kukri in SK-5 and love it. You'd think CS could still crank those out for $150. They'd have plenty of happy customers if they did.
 
jdk1 said:
I think Cold Steel is betting on the fact people will say, "the Gurkha Kukri costs XX" and will never look at the steel. It's like Ford dropping an Escort drive train into a Mustang GT, and just assuming buyers will never look under the hood until after they've paid for it. And, this is a big one in the knife field, Cold Steel knows many, or maybe most, buyers of knives, especially certain designs, don't use them. Khukuri and swords are blades many people buy to hang on the wall, or swing around in their bathrobe😆. A Khukuri in 4034 is perfect for LARPing, but not chopping seasoned oak.

On another note, I have a "China Doll" Gurkha Kukri in SK-5 and love it. You'd think CS could still crank those out for $150. They'd have plenty of happy customers if they did.
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They had so many alternatives, yet they went the cheapest route they could
 
jdk1 said:
On another note, I have a "China Doll" Gurkha Kukri in SK-5 and love it. You'd think CS could still crank those out for $150. They'd have plenty of happy customers if they did.
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If you look online there are several SK5 Gurka Kukri's with huge quarter size chips torn out of the blade and one, I ran across was an O1 version that snapped off right in front of the handle. I haven't heard anything bad about the Carbon V version's so far as chipping out or snapping.
 
d762nato said:
If you look online there are several SK5 Gurka Kukri's with huge quarter size chips torn out of the blade and one, I ran across was an O1 version that snapped off right in front of the handle. I haven't heard anything bad about the Carbon V version's so far as chipping out or snapping.
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You won't see chipped 4034, as it rolls instead 🤣

And people will be hesitant to beat on them considering the price CS charges for them...
 
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