SFT vs. Tapered Tang

[xxkcxx]

So I have attempted to gain understanding about this topic in a few ways without much satisfaction. So....

Question: What are the pro and cons of Skeletonized Full-thickness Tangs and Tapered Tangs? ? ?

Thanks!

 

[superpaco]

I too would very much like more information on this topic. Jay Fisher says something to the effect that a tapered tang is more difficult to do correctly and is therefore a sign of higher quality and it also give the blade better balance. I've never handled one myself so cant say one way or another but it does make sense. However, there surely must be more to it than this..... right?

 

[Fiddleback]

When I visited the Guild show in Kentucky in 2012 as a guest, I was told again and again that I needed to taper my tangs. So I came home and tapered at least ten tangs a week for the entire year till the next Guild show. When I showed my knives to be judged for probationary membership at the 2013 show I had tapered over 500 that year. I felt confident showing them by that point. Really up that 2012 show I didn't think it made much of a difference. Then after a while, the full thickness tangs just felt stupid heavy. So I started skeletonizing them with drill holes. Nowadays all the knives get done at once, and so all the tangs are skeletonized and the tapered ones are that much lighter still.

Its more challenging to make light weight knives than heavy knives. They're also easier to carry and faster in the hand. Its something I chase. I also think they're better feeling user knives. (I'm talking about belt knives here, not big choppers.) So thats the why's: pressure from peers, challenging and rewarding to make, and better feeling user experience.

To taper a tang, I mark a line at the end of the tang and grind off the waste metal to the line with a wheel. Wheels are very efficient at removing steel. Then I flatten the tang so that the parts that show are all even. Its a lot of hand grinding, a craftsman's touch. The hardest part to learn wasn't the steel work. The handle shaping has to be ajusted in the brain pan as well, and mine are complex, so it was harder to nail that part.

 

[xxkcxx]

So is there anything to be said about the differences as far as function i.e. one is stronger or weaker or more or less desirable for different uses?

 

[solid4ever]

Given the tasks Andy's knives are made for, I'm not sure you'd see any performance change. Theoretically, a tapered tang and skeletonized tang would not have the rigidity through the spine/handle as one solid, heat treated piece of steel...but that's more of a math argument than an actual performance one. Depending on how many holes Andy drills for the skelentonized, that may prove to be a weak point when a lot of lateral pressure is applied to the knife. But again, if you are prying with your woodsman to the point of breakage, the problem is on you and not the tang.

Mostly, the difference I've seen, is the weight and feel. obviously a full tang spine will make the overall width of the handle bigger. That's preference. The first Arete I ever got from Andy was a tapered tang model with a very light wood handle. The taper went to almost nothing. I did not like it. It was not poorly made at all, it just didn't feel right to me. I then got a full tang (non-skeletonized) arete and it's my favorite knife now. I like a knife to feel 'substantial'. I'm not sure how to explain that better. I like the balance point of my knife to be inside my palm when gripping it. Tapers and skeletonized moves the balance point forward (while dropping the overall weight). I do not like the weight of the knife to feel outside of my hand. I like it to be inside my fingers. Otherwise I feel like i'm trying to feather stick with a hammer.

I'm probably in the minority on that thinking though.

 

[dcycleman]

I dig a full handle, they don't make my hand cramp as quickly. For this reason I like the sft over the tapered. I will definitely take skeletonized over not though. But I think the tapered ones look the nuts

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Interesting. I didn't know that the tapered tang was skeletonized as well.

Hmm... I like some weight in my knives handles too. I just figured the two were a wash tapered versus drilled. Tapered AND drilled? Glad I know this now.

 

[rickmy]

Thanks for the info. For the life of me (and google) I could figure out what SFT stood for the I assumed ft was for full tang.

 

[typicalpest]

Hello\

Think of the tapered tang like a fishing pole, think think of what a fishing pole does. It flexes. It is lightweight. It shifts balance points. And no its not hard to do if you address the set up correctly. I would venture to say I can taper a tang just as fast as someone can drill a bunch of holes. And in the end have a classier appearance that shouts Handmade quality and attention to detail.

 

[oneminus2]

Hey KaphaC - I guess the real question is: What do you want to do with the knife? Do you plan to baton through knotted oak? Do you plan to process game? Are you concerned the knife might break on you? I have full tangs, and tapered tangs. I love the tapered tangs and for general camp use they are flawless. I would not want nor would I try to baton through knotted oak with a 1/8" thick tapered tang blade, since I would be setting myself up for disappointment. This goes for any 1/8" knife not only FBF. There are better tools for those tasks, like an axe for example.

If you are looking for quality craftsmanship, aesthetics and supreme ergonomic handles then get a Fiddleback. Ask yourself what you want out of your FBF and go from there. I would recommend a 5/32" Hunter or Bushfinger. Not sure if this helps your quest, but don't be to concerned with SFT vs Tapered vs etc. Start with either a Bushfinger or a Hunter and go from there. Andy's knife have excellent balance and you get what you pay for: quality craftsmanship. Trust me, you won't regret it...and besides, tapered tangs look sweet!

 

[NoFair]

Tapered and SFT both affect balance, but don't affect strength much. SFT is a cheaper way to move the balance forward while a tapered tang is a lot more work and in many cases more aesthetically pleasing.

 

[xxkcxx]

I think I am getting it thanks for your help everyone!

 

[willic]

I use a knife often in the kitchen, professionally and at home. With a chef's knife I use a 9"-10", if sharp and treated delicately, that knife can do everything. Part of the delicate handling is light handling, I use my fingers tips on the grip when de-boning and delicate work. In the kitchen, I rarely grip a knife all the way to the palm of my hand. This carries over to the woods for me. I like the super think tapered tangs; the thinner, the better for me. I do have a SFT that is soooo light, it might be as light as most tapers, maybe some get more or bigger holes in the tangs!? Andy's contoured handles, just seem to fit me well. I know many people prefer the full thickness tang, the larger more full grip - we're all individuals!

-Will

 

[Fiddleback]

So is there anything to be said about the differences as far as function i.e. one is stronger or weaker or more or less desirable for different uses?

No. And above I see a lot of claims that it reduces the strength. I do not believe it does. The handle is a composite structure. Any batonning I would have done with a full thickness knife I would do with tapered or skeletonized tangs. I've never in over 3500 knives fixed a problem with a tang whether that was tapered, or skeletonized or neither. The two breaks I've had have been toward the tip. I've read better makers than me say that tapering a tang does not reduce the strength. That is misinformation IMO.

 

[Mistwalker]

No. And above I see a lot of claims that it reduces the strength. I do not believe it does. The handle is a composite structure. Any batonning I would have done with a full thickness knife I would do with tapered or skeletonized tangs. I've never in over 3500 knives fixed a problem with a tang whether that was tapered, or skeletonized or neither. The two breaks I've had have been toward the tip. I've read better makers than me say that tapering a tang does not reduce the strength. That is misinformation IMO.

I think saying that there is a "significant amount of strength lost" in tapered tangs in anything other than a dedicated combat survival knife, is primarily a marketing strategy employed by those who have not the skill or are unwilling to take the time to taper tangs, and a sour-grapes reaction by those who cannot afford the cost of knives made by such skilled craftsmen. I love my Kephart, both in design and function, and for how I got it, but after using a few of your tapered tangs for a while now, and a few skeletonized tangs a bit too, the Kephart is not as comfortable in use as it once was to me. Even the mass produced knives I use for my hardest experiments and that take the most abuse, TOPS and Becker, have skeletonized tangs to reduce handle heaviness. Even taking them well beyond reasonable expectation of the knife's use, the most I have done is damage a few tips along the way, and none catastrophically so far.

 

[Mistwalker]

The Camp Knife in these photos, is my favorite large knife ever. It's 3/16 O-1 with a full height grind, and a tapered tang.

This is how it looked when I got it.

This is how it looks after quite a bit of use from myself, my partner and assistant, AND being thrown into the fray during a bushcraft challenge at Ethan Becker's spring gathering, THEN passed around again at Ethan's autumn gathering. Trust me, you DO NOT want to pass a knife around in this particular group of people unless you have faith in the knife being solidly built. Other than looking like it has been used now, the Camp is no worse for the wear.

 

[Fiddleback]

The great thing about 01 is how tough it is. Thats why we do that knife in 5/32 as well. Have we had to fix one? One? No. They've had tapered tangs.

 

[Brummie]

A knife is very unlikely to break at the handle if it has a slab handle design. Major blade failure (esp. tip or edge) is much more likely to happen first.

I am very particular about balance - like it to be on the first finger (except for choppers) - so I'm not keen on full tang knives if the blade length is below 5". Very glad that Andy is now reducing the weight on all his tangs.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Funny, I've owned so many knives over the years (nearly all folders), and have never had a blade failure. Ever.

Maybe I'm too easy on my knives, likely why I've never had any issues with corrosion, I'm very protective of them. I *highly* doubt that FF will ever have any warranty issues with a knife they sell me, regardless of tang design. My only consideration is balance (although I'm really not picky), and that I do like a little weight in them. On the other hand I've never edc'd a fixed blade for any length of time. Something that I intend to do with my Kephart. Pretty sure I'll go with tapered.

Anyone know the balance point on a tapered Kephart? I realize, of course, that each one will vary since they are hand made.

 

[Brummie]

Wasn't trying to say that blade failure is likely, just that I wouldn't worry one bit about the strength of any of Andy's handles.