Shaping removable scales on a fixed blade? FOLLOW UP!

Bob Ohlemann

Bob Ohlemann

Joined
Dec 5, 2013
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Generally, after I attach my bolsters, I permanently attach my scale material with G/flex and pins. When the epoxy has cured, I shape and finish the handle and I'm done. I'm currently working on a project that is a little different and wanted to see if anyone has a brilliant idea for making this easier. I'm doing a tactical fixed blade with pinned bolsters and African Blackwood scales that will be attached with 6-32 button head screws. I will permanently affix the scales when the knife is complete but, I have to be able to take them off after shaping and finishing because the blade/bolsters are to be Cerakoated. I need a good way of holding the Blackwood scales on the knife during shaping that will still allow me to remove them cleanly. I have been thinking some kind of glue that would allow removal with a heat gun but just don't know what would work well. I've also been brainstorming an idea of using set screws run down in undersize holes in the scales; probably wouldn't hold on its' own but would make a temporary glue attachment stronger. What do you guys got?

Bob
 
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You could do a drop of super glue and a light tap will break the bond
 
I was pondering the same thing. I considered drilling the holes undersize and reaming them for a convenient dowel pin size (whatever's the closest smaller hole for fasteners), then using super glue to temporarily hold everything together. Then you could finish everything, then knock the whole thing apart and drill/counterbore/countersink for final fasteners, and do final glue up. In the end you'd just need to buzz the heads of the fasteners off. In my WSK/Tracker thread, I had originally planned on using SS bolsters and was worried about staining them with cold blue, but since I got rid of the bolsters, I don't need to take bolsters off to finish the knife.
 
viral said:
You could do a drop of super glue and a light tap will break the bond
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Definitely considered this. I'm going to do some tests with some pieces of Blackwood to see if this is feasible.

NeilJBorja said:
I was pondering the same thing. I considered drilling the holes undersize and reaming them for a convenient dowel pin size (whatever's the closest smaller hole for fasteners), then using super glue to temporarily hold everything together. Then you could finish everything, then knock the whole thing apart and drill/counterbore/countersink for final fasteners, and do final glue up. In the end you'd just need to buzz the heads of the fasteners off. In my WSK/Tracker thread, I had originally planned on using SS bolsters and was worried about staining them with cold blue, but since I got rid of the bolsters, I don't need to take bolsters off to finish the knife.
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I kinda like this idea. With a good press fit on the pins, adhesive may not be necessary. Just don't want to split the wood and there's the chance that enlarging a hole later could cause mis-alignment. Of course, if the pins were fit to holes that were already at the final size, that could work.

Patrice Lemée;14540242 said:
I'd simply make a duplicate dummy handle to use when shaping.
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This will not work. I shape the bolsters and scales together and the final tang profile/finish gets finished off with the scales as I shape them. The scales have to be finished on the actual knife to ensure high quality fit and finish.

Bob
 
Not sure I understand Bob, how is it different than folder scales? You can get good fit and finish one those no?
 
Patrice Lemée;14540433 said:
Not sure I understand Bob, how is it different than folder scales? You can get good fit and finish one those no?
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There's quite a bit of difference between my folders (and I am no veteran folder maker) and what I'm trying to achieve with this knife. On folders I just set the depth of the screw heads well below the surface. The folders have a lot less contour than my fixed blades so it's pretty easy to thickness the material, attach the scales and then profile on the knife. On this knife, I don't want to counter-bore for the fasteners until I have the final shape. Because the fasteners are larger, if I set them too deep, there is the risk of causing hot spots during use. I am probably making this more difficult than it needs to be but, I'd rather just do it once.

Bob
 
Is the Cerakote going to stand proud on the tang after all the effort to sand to dimension where all surfaces are flush even? I know that might be only a few thousandths but will that be an issue in the long run?
 
Busto said:
Is the Cerakote going to stand proud on the tang after all the effort to sand to dimension where all surfaces are flush even? I know that might be only a few thousandths but will that be an issue in the long run?
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I don't think it will be an issue. I've done one other knife in a similar manner and the Cerakote didn't cause an appreciable build up. Before anyone asks, the previous knife had no bolsters and the scales were not contoured on the face so I was able to screw them on and profile and shape.

I'm going to experiment with double sided tape, hot glue, and super glue to see if any of these will be the answer.

Bob
 
Hey Bob, limited as my experience is, I've found that as long as you don't plan to hog too much wood off of the scales when you're shaping them, hot glue holds up pretty well. I try to get the scales fairly close to the finished size, then hot glue them into place. Finish up the scales and shape them to meet the bolster and tang flush, and when I'm happy with the results, pop them into the freezer. Once the hot glue gets cold the scales pop of with minimal effort and cleanup is a snap as well. Use a little isopropyl afterward just to make sure the blade tang is good and clean, and your home free. Of course I've never had a coating applied to the blade afterward, but I don't see how that would make much of a difference one way or the other.

With two sided tape, depending upon the thickness, you might end up with an issue that you'll need to add liners to fix...and I didn't see anywhere in your post that you were planning on doing that, so...it could work, but I've had good luck with the hot glue personally so I stick with it.

Hope this helps, and good luck.
 
I have had success with super glue....I think the double sided tape might be to spongy and springy to keep the bolsters and handle even while you are trying to grind them flush??!
 
SOFileworks said:
Hey Bob, limited as my experience is, I've found that as long as you don't plan to hog too much wood off of the scales when you're shaping them, hot glue holds up pretty well. I try to get the scales fairly close to the finished size, then hot glue them into place. Finish up the scales and shape them to meet the bolster and tang flush, and when I'm happy with the results, pop them into the freezer. Once the hot glue gets cold the scales pop of with minimal effort and cleanup is a snap as well. Use a little isopropyl afterward just to make sure the blade tang is good and clean, and your home free. Of course I've never had a coating applied to the blade afterward, but I don't see how that would make much of a difference one way or the other.

With two sided tape, depending upon the thickness, you might end up with an issue that you'll need to add liners to fix...and I didn't see anywhere in your post that you were planning on doing that, so...it could work, but I've had good luck with the hot glue personally so I stick with it.

Hope this helps, and good luck.
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Thanks, do you use low heat or high heat glue sticks?

Busto said:
I have had success with super glue....I think the double sided tape might be to spongy and springy to keep the bolsters and handle even while you are trying to grind them flush??!
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I have some really good 2-sided tape I use for holding thin parts on the mill and surface grinder. It's like duct tape but both sides are sticky.

Bob
 
Bob, I have done similar with A full tang Damascus hunter. I just put 6 hidden pins on the inside. Those thing were so tight I thought I would never get them off. Then after shaping and finishing I carefully pryed them loose and did the etching. Then final glue up. A little trick with the g-flex or what ever oozing out use rubbing alcohol for clean up.

Disclaimer: this works for me :D

Let us know how everything turns out.

Bing
 
Have you tried just screwing them on, shaping, coating, then reassemble with the screws? That works well for non bolstered knives. If you don't think you can get tight enough tolerances with the front of the scales to the bolster you could adjust the size of your clearance holes and counterbore diameter in order to make a very tight fit with the screws.

I have not had much luck gluing scales on a coated blade. It's too easy to miss glue that seeps or miss some glue that gets on other parts of the knife.
 
+1 for superglue. plus a sacrificial pin made from aluminum that you just throw out when you're done. I do this all the time... I just use two drops of glue per side and a small drop on the pin material, then a quick clamp while it dries to hold them in place till I've done my shaping, then a couple taps with the rubber mallet and things come free.

p.s. to avoid glue on other parts, I just tape the other parts and wipe everything off while the glue is still wet.
 
Good advice here already. I have tried both tape and superglue. Double-sided carpet tape was too thick and mushy for me. The type used to mount automotive decals is thinner and stronger but still leaves a gap. Also it was an unpredictable nightmare to separate small parts without damaging edges, finish etc.

So,

I most often use a few small drops of superglue and two or three hidden index pins - for when the glue let's go ahead of schedule. When it happens just clean up the flats on a surface plate, glue again, and back to work in a minute or two. Superglue is surprisingly strong but usually shears easily with a sharp rap on the flats (keep glue away from temporary pins/bores obviously). Clean the materials and you get more predictable results IME

Bob I'm curious what you plan for the threaded holes for your mechanical fasteners relative to Cerakote? Are you using a press fit insert after coating or ?? Also are you planning on shaping/finishing scales prior to or after Cerakote?

Stainless steel is looking pretty good the more I think about all this...
 
Hey Bob, I believe they are low temperature glue sticks, but honestly I couldn't say for sure...they are whatever my wife uses for crafting. I can say this though, they certainly don't feel low temperature when it ends up on your skin:D
 
Bob, I use a super glue brand called "stick fast' which I use to glue bolsters together for shaping. When they are sanded to 400 grit on the fronts and backs I shear them apart with a rap on the edges with a small hammer and they pop apart. I then sand off the residue and my bolsters are ready for drilling. If you could smear a tiny bit on your scales you could pop them off again with a leather covered hammer or a soft mallet. Just a thought. Larry
 
Lots of great advice here guys, I really appreciate it. This knife is a bit unusual. It was ordered by a guy who came through basic training when I was a Drill Sergeant. He wasn't actually in my platoon but I was one of the primary instructors for just about all company level training so he was apparently heavily influenced by my leadership style. When he graduated Infantry OSUT, he went to his duty station in 3rd Infantry Division and spent the remainder of his three year enlistment there. As he was completing his enlistment and processing out of the unit/Army, I was reassigned to the same unit as a platoon sergeant and took all of his friends to Kuwait within a month to prep for the invasion of Iraq. It sounds like he kept in touch with several of them because he knows a lot of stories. Anyway, he wanted a custom black tactical knife with something different. Below is the drawing I made for him based on our discussions. Might not be for everybody but, he is super excited about it and I think it might actually look kind of cool. I don't usually do such a over-the-top drawing but this guy isn't a knife guy so the drawing is a little cheesey.

Bob

Print by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr
 
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