Share your tricks for Flute Fittings

[Erin Burke]

I've seen woodworkers use a router with just brass pins that insert in a grid pattern.
It's easier to control depth with two or more pins, but just one pin could work.

I thought about this. I envisioned something akin to kuraki's sketch, but with two pins instead of fingers. Even if the pins were directly adjacent to the ball though, I could see getting noticeable cut depth variations between a tight concave and convex surfaces. I really like the idea of a burr with a consistent pilot surface (maybe the shank will work for this)... or even better, something like a 1" disc with a 1/4" rounded carbide burr edge. Kind of like a 1/4" round file bent into a circle and mounted on a stick. Like John mentioned above, I could use various other "depth-stop" discs fitted over the shaft to control depth of cut.

 

[HSC ///]

see if this helps, it's the Dremel router table, you can adjust the height of the tool.

http://vid1273.photobucket.com/albu...E-E70B-412B-B651-49E22C0C272A_zps0a5qft3p.mp4

 

[John L]

Try to make an pin router setup as in woodworking. The overhead pin is in line with your ball mill. The area you are not milling touches the overarm guide.

 

[Erin Burke]

Try to make an pin router setup as in woodworking. The overhead pin is in line with your ball mill. The area you are not milling touches the overarm guide.

Boom! I think you nailed it here John. Definitely given me some ideas. Now I just need to receive my order of ball burrs. MSC just sent me an email this morning that they won't ship until mid-July. I'll likely cancel the order and buy from another vendor.

Anyone have a favorite vendor for quality carbide burrs???

Erin

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Kurakai's image would work except for one problem - Ball burrs don't cut much, if at all, on the apex. For even cutting, you have to be on the side where the cutting force is even.

A simple dremel router table, or a home brew one dedicated for your task is super simple. To control depth of cut ... and evenness of depth ... just use a fence on the router table. Stick a consumable wood face on the fence with double side tape and advance it into the ball until only the desired depth of cut is exposed. After cutting the grooves, take fine cut cylindrical round files ( chain saw files) and smooth up the grooves. A stroke or two with a sandpaper wrapped dowel will finish it up.

 

[joe yhcarh]

Good morning folks. I'm hoping to pick your collective brains on methods for fluting fittings.

Often on my projects, I like to include decorative fluting on guards, ferrules, etc.

In the past, I have done this type of work with nothing more than a height gauge & surface plate for marking, followed by files/sandpaper/elbow grease for grooving.

There are a few reasons why I'd like to explore other methods to accomplish this type result.

Firstly, I am working on a guard at present that includes some concave areas around its perimeter (see image below). It is not feasible to set the concave areas of these grooves with standard round files. I started to make an attempt at working these areas with a curved (round) riffler file, but it became obvious quickly that I would not get quality {clean} results this way.

Secondly, file work can be tedious, so I'm always interested in ways to be more efficient (faster) while still maintaining a quality result.

So my question to you folks who have done similar grooving... what are your methods? Do you have any special tools -- files, grinding discs, burrs -- to help do this?

If you have them, photos of the equipment/process/results would be helpful.

Thanks in advance.
Erin

Yep... I could see that working with a disc. It doesn't seem super workable with a ball burr though. I'm wondering if anyone makes a carbide disc burr with a rounded edge.
Thanks John.

hi
concave is easy
lay out the design
concave is in essence a half a hole
si center punch centre of hole on eah concave intended and drill it with the apropriate drill for the material,s
cut away what is not needed and finish by hand or dremel.
did this help?
joe

 

[joe yhcarh]

Boom! I think you nailed it here John. Definitely given me some ideas. Now I just need to receive my order of ball burrs. MSC just sent me an email this morning that they won't ship until mid-July. I'll likely cancel the order and buy from another vendor.

Anyone have a favorite vendor for quality carbide burrs???

Erin

Try Ebay cheap but sometimes quite ok

 

[Geoff Flato]

I'll second the eBay carbide burrs. Last set of 10 or 12 I ordered straight from China were something like $12 with free shipping.
They've been every bit as good as the $30 a piece MA Ford burrs I usually buy

 

[Erin Burke]

hi
concave is easy
lay out the design
concave is in essence a half a hole
si center punch centre of hole on eah concave intended and drill it with the apropriate drill for the material,s
cut away what is not needed and finish by hand or dremel.
did this help?
joe

Hi Joe, thanks for taking the time to respond... and I hope this doesn't come across as rude... but no, this doesn't seem very helpful. My (perhaps erroneous) interpretation of your recommendation is that you're explaining how to create a concave space. However, if you check out the roughed-out guard at the end of the original post, you'll see that I've already done that. Shaping the concave sections of the guard was done quite easily on my grinder. My question to this forum, as presented in that same post, concerns how to groove the perimeter of the guard... specifically the interior of the concave section where a straight round file will not work. I am unsure how center-punch and drill can aid in this. Perhaps I am missing something?

Try Ebay cheap but sometimes quite ok

Yep. I placed an order with an eBay vendor yesterday for some Monster burrs at a great price.
Thanks man.

Erin

 

[Erin Burke]

I'll second the eBay carbide burrs. Last set of 10 or 12 I ordered straight from China were something like $12 with free shipping.
They've been every bit as good as the $30 a piece MA Ford burrs I usually buy

Thanks Geoff. I agree... eBay often has some pretty great deals on this type of stuff. For drills, taps, reamers, etc. (whether carbide or not) I tend to have the best luck with quality name-brand (often made in USA) stuff... but frequently these can be found at good prices on eBay (with free -- or decently priced -- shipping usually).

The two Monster 1/4" ball burrs (1/8" shank - one single-cut and one double-cut) that I ordered off eBay yesterday were about $7 a piece shipped.
Erin

 

[kuraki]

Forgot to come back with this link. They have other sizes but it's hard to link to anything but specific product number pages on McMaster.

Round edge "T" shape burr.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#4241a61/=17ys1oi

 

[Erin Burke]

Forgot to come back with this link. They have other sizes but it's hard to link to anything but specific product number pages on McMaster.

Round edge "T" shape burr.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#4241a61/=17ys1oi

Thanks brother. These look interesting.

 

[kuraki]

I thought we had a pretty trick supplier for burrs here at work but turns out we're getting ours from MSC.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

".....Hi Joe, thanks for taking the time to respond... and I hope this doesn't come across as rude... but no, this doesn't seem very helpful. My (perhaps erroneous) interpretation of your recommendation is that you're explaining how to create a concave space. However, if you check out the roughed-out guard at the end of the original post, you'll see that I've already done that. Shaping the concave sections of the guard was done quite easily on my grinder. My question to this forum, as presented in that same post, concerns how to groove the perimeter of the guard... specifically the interior of the concave section where a straight round file will not work. I am unsure how center-punch and drill can aid in this. Perhaps I am missing something?
...."

Erin,
If you look at the many replies you will see that you did not make it clear what you wanted advice on. Your original post seemed to be asking how to make the concave grooves.

I now realize that you are trying to find a way to make the small groove along the rims of the concave sections.
You could rough them in using a router table in the same manner I described with a knife edge or round edge wheel instead of the ball burr. Carbide is your friend here, too.

 

[Geoff Flato]

Thanks Geoff. I agree... eBay often has some pretty great deals on this type of stuff. For drills, taps, reamers, etc. (whether carbide or not) I tend to have the best luck with quality name-brand (often made in USA) stuff... but frequently these can be found at good prices on eBay (with free -- or decently priced -- shipping usually).

The two Monster 1/4" ball burrs (1/8" shank - one single-cut and one double-cut) that I ordered off eBay yesterday were about $7 a piece shipped.
Erin

Drills, taps, reamers, countersinks, ect I'm very picky about which brands I'll buy.
But carbide burrs are one thing that the Chinese really seem to have figured out.

 

[stezann]

It is not trivial to set up a stop for a router bit upon grooving a concave path.
It could be set up a sort of adjustable pendulum sled (a surface grinder for concave surfaces ) if the concave surface would be a perfect circle section, but i am afraid the most pratical way would be slowly following the groove depth by eye and then finishing with stones or sandpaper&dowels.
Yes the bone jigging carbide bits they use in the slipjoint trade looks like the right tool for roughing in the groove.

 

[Hengelo_77]

This is 6mm thick bronce (less then 1/4"thick)
Just patience, 2mm round needle file and sandpaper around a 1,5mm thick drill bit and more patience
Handsand the deeps to 2500 and the highs to 800

 

[Erin Burke]

Having finished the knife, I thought I'd close out this thread with some photos and a video. What worked best for me was a 1/4" single-cut ball burr in my Dremel. I built an aluminum table for the Dremel router attachment that worked fairly well. It required special (dainty)care when removing material near leading corners on the workpiece... but I'm happy with the results.

Thanks for your help on this.
Erin

 

[kuraki]

Awesome!

 

[Busto]

That Certainly came out nice and the flutes are very distinctive...