Sharp out of the box???

[22-rimfire]

Yeah. I'm considering getting the Ken Onion version of the Work Sharp for just that purpose. I like to sharpen by hand, but for the big jobs it can be frustrating. Sometimes the knife (price) doesn't justify a serious time effort unless you do it for fun. That's okay.

I bought one of the 12" Ontario machetes when I first got interested in machetes (a couple of years ago). I envisioned something to store inside my vehicles for emergencies and for some bush wacking sometimes on jobs. That thing was awful and I struggled to even make it "sharp" by any consistent standard. Believe it or not, I bought a second one.... same deal. The sheaths suck. The handles suck. The edge sucks..... gee, guess I learned my lesson and it became a Condor all the way kind of thing for me.

Yes all knives eventually get dull if you use them. Sharpening is a learned skill especially on bench stones. But I still judge in part a factory knife by the factory edge regardless of whether I will sharpen it later or not. I almost always do including Kabars (Beckers mostly). They are just not quite sharp enough for me from the factory, but generally they are sharp to touch.

 

[ejames13]

Exactly.

Sharp is hard to measure and very much a matter of personal opinion.

I prefer edges that aren't "sharp" enough to shave hair, but do a much better job for longer in the real world.

Does that mean they aren't sharp?

Just curious here, what kind of sharpening routine are you doing where the edge comes out unable to shave?

 

[craytab]

Yeah. I'm considering getting the Ken Onion version of the Work Sharp for just that purpose. I like to sharpen by hand, but for the big jobs it can be frustrating. Sometimes the knife (price) doesn't justify a serious time effort unless you do it for fun. That's okay.

I bought one of the 12" Ontario machetes when I first got interested in machetes (a couple of years ago). I envisioned something to store inside my vehicles for emergencies and for some bush wacking sometimes on jobs. That thing was awful and I struggled to even make it "sharp" by any consistent standard. Believe it or not, I bought a second one.... same deal. The sheaths suck. The handles suck. The edge sucks..... gee, guess I learned my lesson and it became a Condor all the way kind of thing for me.

Yes all knives eventually get dull if you use them. Sharpening is a learned skill especially on bench stones. But I still judge in part a factory knife by the factory edge regardless of whether I will sharpen it later or not. I almost always do including Kabars (Beckers mostly). They are just not quite sharp enough for me from the factory, but generally they are sharp to touch.

I sort of wish I got the KO version but I have figured out I prefer a V edge and hand sharpening so I guess it is good I didn't. The WS is awesome for big jobs. Well worth the cost IMO.

Buying a dull knife is like buying a new car with flat tires. Sure, you can fill them up, and you will need to eventually anyway. But, a car should be ready to roll off of the lot and a knife should be ready to cut out of the box. The benchmades, spydercos, and the one Kershaw that I've bought have all been satisfactorily sharp. I just received a cold steel finnwolf that is amazingly sharp- and has held the edge through wood carving. The production kitchen knives that I've bought have been a disappointment out of the box. I haven't bought a Busse in years, but they were all ground like dull axes.

If it doesn't cut, it's not a knife. Dull edges on new knives show a lack of attention to detail that makes me question the maker. Yes I can sharpen a knife, but I shouldn't need to fill the gas tank on a new car rolling of the lot or put a new knife on a water stone before using it.

Are the tires on the car flat because they just didn't have enough air in them or because they all have punctures? One is easily fixed, the other not. Gas is also quite easy to put in a car. If the car doesn't come with the right amount of gas is that the manufacturers fault or the dealer? Maybe stick to one analogy at a time.

I've had dull knives from many of the major brands including ZT, Benchmade, Survive!, and BRKT. I've had extremely sharp knives from value brands. These are production knives. Stuff happens. A worker has a bad day and does a poor job on the last 5 knives....whatever. My first 0560 came dull. Does that mean ZT is crap? Of course not. I bought a 7/7. Came with a blunted tip. Does that mean survive! sucks? Nope. Sharpness is essentially a consumable. You can replenish it at anytime, and if you use the knife, you will need to.

 

[bflying]

Out of hundreds, I've had my share of dull out of the box. But there are some brands that simply seem to stand out as exceptional. Percentage wise, I think my Spyderco's and ZT's (as well as US Kershaw) have been the best for me as actually sharp from the start (and evenly beveled). Others seem to be hit-n-miss in terms of what I consider acceptably sharp from the factory.

But since I enjoy sharpening (and have a bit of ocd), I also consider how even the final bevel. An edge may be sharp, but if it is ground to 10 deg on one side and 30 on the other, I find that as unacceptable as a completely blunted edge. Most of my knives (at least the ones that get any use), end up with a re-profile at some time. But I would prefer to get some use out of the edge first if possible. This allows me to get a feel of the overall blade geometry before I decide if a final angle change is desired.

 

[mauser9]

Of the very few bought recently the Sog Trident came the sharpest of the last 3.

 

[miso2]

Thank you, guys, for your opinions.
I guess I need to clarify my initial statement a bit.

I understand that “sharpness” is not a metric but subjective.
From the education I have had in this forum, my current “sharp” edge means a burr-free apexed edge, no matter whether it is coarse or fine (this may also be subjective).
This kind of edge would sink into a medium like tomato skin with a minimum slicing motion and without slipping on the surface.

Most of knives including Spyderco knives came “dull” in this definition.
These edges feel rather “fine” or smooth but not toothy.
My guess is that they are not fully apexed.


Then, the comment by JR88FAN is interesting to me.

I prefer edges that aren't "sharp" enough to shave hair, but do a much better job for longer in the real world.

Those “dull” edges may fit this description well.
Maybe manufacturers make their knife edges like this on purpose?
It may also make sense to put a little obtuse edge on a knife to prevent it from being damaged during shipping.


Miso

 

[bdmicarta]

I have gotten a number of new knives that were very sharp out of the box, most notably were recent Spydercos such as PM2 and Manix 2.

 

[Wowbagger]

Here’s a link to a thread
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...st-Worst-Factory-Edge?p=15430230#post15430230

I have three of these. All three were hair whittling; for most of their blade length, out of the box. And that is two different models a couple of years apart and maybe two different countries of origin; Germany and Taiwan respectively.



This ZDP-189 from Seki City could not have been better really. Very sharp and well formed. I just used it out of the box.


There have been others. I would say some of the worst have been Bokers and SAKs but I like the knives. I would never dream of trying to use one of these two out of the box without a major overhaul of the edges . Out of the box these two tend to be pretty useless. Scissors are great on the SAKs though. No prob there ever.

So yah it can happen . . . sharp and ready to use out of the box.

 

[whitty]

I typically will not describe a knife as wicked sharp out of the box, in most of my videos or sales descriptions, unless it is at least shaving hair sharp.

 

[DShiflet]

Have you ever owned a Spyderco? I have never had one come out of the box that was not shaving sharp.

My S110V Manix 2 wasn't even sharp enough to cut paper out of the box. Very annoying since Spyderco ususally does a great job out of the box.

 

[Velitrius]

I sometimes waste a half-hour watching "Jeopardy!" and sometimes an hour watching "Finding Bigfoot".

I don't mind sharpening a knife that came so-so out of the box during those times. The knife gets sharp and Bigfoot still isn't found. All good.

I order a knife because it's the style I want. If it won't shave hair, I'll make it so it does.

Now, if it won't take an edge, that's defect-ville, and I will call than an issue. But failing to pop hair out of the box isn't a problem I can't solve.

 

[knarfeng]

So my question is whether the "sharp out of the box" claim is meaningful at all, when judgeing the quality of a knife.
What is your opinion?
Miso

Generally, no. It is not how I judge a knife. However, it does kind of depend on how unsharp it is.
►If all I have to do is touch it up, no worries. I expect to touch up every knife I buy.
►If I have to reprofile the edge, I'm less happy.
►If the profile just sucks and I have to put significant effort into it, then I downgrade the "quality" and let folks know about it.

 

[Velitrius]

Generally, no. It is not how I judge a knife. However, it does kind of depend on how unsharp it is.
►If all I have to do is touch it up, no worries. I expect to touch up every knife I buy.
►If I have to reprofile the edge, I'm less happy.
►If the profile just sucks and I have to put significant effort into it, then I downgrade the "quality" and let folks know about it.

I'll buy that, Frank... but I'll give some lee-way depending on how much I spent on the piece.

If I have to spend the whole hour of "Finding Bigfoot" re-profiling a Gerber Strongarm, well then I got what I paid for...

But if I spend the entire half-hour of "Jeopardy!" re-doing a Southern Grind Bad Monkey, I'm going to give a rather harsh review.

 

[Dean51]

I've never found myself having to buy a sharp knife because I didn't have one on me. So I don't worry if the knife doesn't meet my exceptions of sharp, I'm going to sharpen it before I use it anyway.
There is no way a knife maker will know what how acute or obtuse a customer will want the edge on his knife. So I don't think to much about that.
I does bug me to no end if the bevel is uneven or only partly ground or wavy, that's just sloppy.

 

[22-rimfire]

I can buy a $10 Rough Rider and it will be sharp sharp sharp out of the box. Dull new knives make me unhappy. But I can sharpen them and pretty much agree with knarfeng. Having to re-profile a brand new knife because it won't cut does not make me happy.

I would love my new plain edge knife to just slice through a tomato like that "gitzo" or whatever thing on TV. But it is not that important to me. I use serrated knives for tomatoes. I keep a half dozen cheap serrated Vic kitchen knives and they do quite nicely on tomatoes or bread for under $10. I keep a like number stored (new) and ready for use should they be needed. Those inexpensive Vic's get used every single day at home. They are remarkable inexpensive knives.

I seldom have my knives shaving sharp. It is just not important to me. But some, yes, so when my brother in law visits I can pull it out and he'll comment.... "that's sharp!" and we grin at each other.

 

[brancron]

I care more about even bevels than a super sharp edge out of the box. I don't mind sharpening, but I should not have to reprofile the thing.

 

[ChazzyP]

I care more about even bevels than a super sharp edge out of the box. I don't mind sharpening, but I should not have to reprofile the thing.

This:thumbup:

Uneven bevels are a big PIA and I seem to find them more and more. I agree with an earlier poster that Spydies and ZTs come pretty consistently sharp. I've also noticed lately that Spydies come from the factory with a much more acutely angled bevel than in the past, though maybe it's just those few I've come across. The more acute the bevels the more effort it takes to get them right. I had a Millie I bought for my son last Christmas that I spent hours on recently.

I don't expect factory-ground bevels to be as sharp as I want them. If the makers get 'em even, I don't mind gettin' 'em sharp.

 

[me2]

For factory knives, I've been fairly fortunate. Most have been hair shaving. If a knife is dull I don't mind sharpening it. However if a knife is dull and comes from a maker that claims a lot of testing to prove the superiority of their knives, it casts a shadow on their testing in terms of comparative testing. If the maker had issues sharpening, how can they make meaningful comparisons?

 

[Wolverine666]

I just got a brand new Ti Military in the mail yesterday and this thing has the sharpest factory edge I've ever seen. So sharp it's almost evil.

 

[FullMetalJackass]

I just got a brand new Ti Military in the mail yesterday and this thing has the sharpest factory edge I've ever seen. So sharp it's almost evil.

Had the exact same feeling when I got mine. Crazy stupid sharpness, I'm sure if I am fast enough it can cut the fabric of reality and send me in the twilight zone.