Sharpened art knives???

Richard338 said:
For me I would say sharp then etched, is fine. Some even like what they perceive as toothyness. I have seen some pictures where there doesn't appear to be much of an edge and I wouldn't like that.
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Would you say even if the etching has given so much toothyness it can’t slice paper? Once I finish etching it would cut you for sure but Alice through paper, nope. I know many of my style of knives won’t ever be used and therefore I kind of want to leave the sharp etched edge as opposed to sharpening a second time. Do you believe that’s acceptable even if it can’t slice through paper?
 
And is it not because the craftman is afraid of spoiling his work with the last step, the final sharpening?
 
further ruminations;

Generally speaking, Art Knives are meant to be held, that's what they share with non Art Knives. I learned this when I went to AKI in 2011 and Michael Walker encouraged me to hold a knife he made, which I think sold for $58,000. Every other maker at that show encouraged physical interaction with their work. I don't recall how sharp the knives were or even if they were sharp at all. I recall some of Virgil England's pieces not being sharp, but they were definitely knives.

If the intention of the artist is for the object created to be held, and for a tactile interface to occur, then they are limiting by a significant degree access to all aspects of the piece. Creating a plane crucial to the design of the work which cannot be physically accessed, without causing injury, does limit the interaction in about as severe a way as I can think of.

If the Art Knife is not meant to be held, then what does it matter if it's sharp or not? Or even if it's hardened? Or what steel it's made from?

I've personally seen people run their finger along the blade to see how sharp it is, only to find out that's a terrible way to find out. Those are non knife people, but who show what seems like kind of a natural tendency, since I've seen it happen often. If the artist's intention is for the viewer to 'feel' something about the knife that includes facilitating the natural tendency to run a finger along the length of the edge, then it makes sense to me to create a plane there which doesn't punish the person having the experience of that object.
 
PaulDiStefano said:
Would you say even if the etching has given so much toothyness it can’t slice paper? Once I finish etching it would cut you for sure but Alice through paper, nope. I know many of my style of knives won’t ever be used and therefore I kind of want to leave the sharp etched edge as opposed to sharpening a second time. Do you believe that’s acceptable even if it can’t slice through paper?
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If it was sharp before the etch, then it is at most a quick touch-up from being sharp.
Since these are not hard use knives, you could grind thin and put on a micro bevel.
 
I'd want to see the shiny edge bevel on an etched knife. Shows me it's a sharpened blade - an actual knife that's pretty, not just a pretty thing that looks knifey. But I'm not the customer for those things, so my opinion is worth exactly what you've paid for it.

I've certainly taken pictures of knives before putting an edge on, usually because of time of day, good weather for daylight pix, etc. This happens when I knock off for the day and save sheath & edge for a final session on a later day, but it's convenient to take pix beween. Usually mention that in the caption ("before edge"), but ultimately the blade goes out to a customer with an edge of course.
 
In the simplest terms, a knife is a tool designed to cut (let's not go down the rabbit hole of scissors, shears, chisels, etc. please). If it does not cut, it does not fulfill the specifications of a knife. I will not engage in arguments over degrees of sharpness or a knife that was sharp but is temporarily dull. If the object is created to be a cutting tool it should be sharpened, becoming a knife. If it was created as an artistic statement then it is an objet d'art. But "art" is subjective and we've had that conversation before as well. If the object was created with the intention of being a cutting tool, but is left less than sharp temporarily while photographs are taken for example, you can argue that it is a knife because it will be sharp. But it doesn't become a tool used for cutting until it is sharp. We have an emotional attachment to knives. They are beautiful and useful. But let's apply the concept to another common tool, the screwdriver. You can design it to be a screwdriver. You can make it out of pattern welded steel, heat treat it, put a fancy decorative handle on it, have it photographed, you can nuzzle it with your nose and call it cute little names if you like. But if at the end of the shaft is just a smooth round end, it is not going to screw anything but the customer.
 
i4Marc said:
In the simplest terms, a knife is a tool designed to cut (let's not go down the rabbit hole of scissors, shears, chisels, etc. please). If it does not cut, it does not fulfill the specifications of a knife. I will not engage in arguments over degrees of sharpness or a knife that was sharp but is temporarily dull. If the object is created to be a cutting tool it should be sharpened, becoming a knife. If it was created as an artistic statement then it is an objet d'art. But "art" is subjective and we've had that conversation before as well. If the object was created with the intention of being a cutting tool, but is left less than sharp temporarily while photographs are taken for example, you can argue that it is a knife because it will be sharp. But it doesn't become a tool used for cutting until it is sharp. We have an emotional attachment to knives. They are beautiful and useful. But let's apply the concept to another common tool, the screwdriver. You can design it to be a screwdriver. You can make it out of pattern welded steel, heat treat it, put a fancy decorative handle on it, have it photographed, you can nuzzle it with your nose and call it cute little names if you like. But if at the end of the shaft is just a smooth round end, it is not going to screw anything but the customer.
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Well, if that's going to be your attitude...I might have to commission a build from you!
 
Soon Before this thread came up, I had a knife (Damascus Bowie) sent to me for photography. It was NOT sharpened.

I had no discussion with the maker about this, and the knife is terrific. (I am sure he will sharpen it for his client.)

However, two things which I note:

1. Knives are my business. I don't need protection from edges while photographing, or shipping back and forth.

2. I often highlight the edge on a blade--either the curve at the tip and sometimes the entire length. It really shows the viewer another aspect. I don't get that option.

This said, the maker may have wanted the pattern unaltered. The client is KING!

I am going to write my preferences on my 'SBC Shipping' page. Just in case.

Good thread Paul. :thumbsup:
 
If you never put an edge on a knife then there is no reason to heat treat it either
 
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I personally view knives as "Functional Art"! I have a few very nice knives from Andrew Takach, Matt Lamey, Bailey, Fiddleback Forge, Murr and Jason Knight. All my blades are sharp, that separates a knife from a pretty piece of metal.
I use all of those makers blades, Jason specifically made the blade for me to use.
 
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One of the things that makes a sharpened art knife special is that it can kill and maim and is designed as such. Not so with a sculpture. I have neon sculpture that are functional art as well, they light the room; but when the neon dies so does the art :( doesn't stop me from plugging them in :)
 
Ive made alot of custom knives that will never be used as they were intended as a cutting tool. They were purchased more as 'artwork'. Some customers have something specific they would like the blade to look like or follow a themed. Some of my customers give me freedom to do go as wild as I like, however I do ask prior will it be getting use or not as I dont want to go all out with some crazy finish when the customer actually wanted to use it but then they don't as they don't want to ruin its original finish what ever that maybe. As for them being sharp i personally make sure that they are. I've ruined quite a few knives and had to start again when sharpening prior to send out but that's life nothing work out perfectly all the time. At the end of the day I design my knives from the start to be able to perform as a hard use cutting tool from the steel that will be used through to the heat treatment I consider the final 'artistic finish' just make up. People who purchase a exotic supercar because of its beautiful design and looks also expect it to perform they might not drive it ever at 300km/h but I doubt they would buy the same car if it had some 1.2L engine.
I think regardless of whether the knife is made to be used daily or just spend its life as a safe queen it must be sharp otherwise it just an fancy blade blank.
 
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It would add deeply to this conversation if the dagger in question was actually seen:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CE_gj_riylO/

I applaud Lana Gorska and Daniele Ibba for creating such a masterpiece. It's spectacular. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Will it slice paper? No. Will it stab? Yes. This isn't an ABS performance test, obviously.
 
the shape of that knife suggests it would have a cutting edge. It does not.

is it a knife? If not, what is it?
 
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