Sharpening Challenge

I'd have an easier time with zdp. The burr removing is brutal on 440a. Its so soft and doesnt deburr easy. Just when you think you striped it off with stroping and a piece of Cork, it remains to roll the edge over.
Ymmv
If so, pics
 
I deburr my soft steels with either a micro bevel at 2x the angle on a course stone or a carbide sharpener with no pressure.
The one 440A blade I own is a Boker Urban Tank, more of an SD knife. I sharpened and thinned it on a diamond hone box from harbour freight at 200 grit. The burr didnt last 2 strokes.
Would cut paper towels though.
If you want to sharpen zdp189 on a soft ark stone I want pics of your poor misshapen hands after.
 
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JR88FAN said:
Questions like this are the first signs of clinical boredom.....

Why?

There is a great and simple process of how to go from not cutting paper, to hair shaving sharp on stones...you've been free handing for 5 years?!?! I would imagine you know how to get there by now.

I understand that we all want to learn and try new things, but this is a borderline go see a doctor kinda question....
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Wow what a jerk. Anyway it can be done, especially since you are dealing with 440a. As stated above use the edge of the stone to get a burr. Then hone the burr off lessening the pressure as you go. As for a strop, you do own a belt right?
 
I own a strop. It's just not part of the challenge.

I'm just enchanted by the idea of having enough skill to put a screaming edge with a with a low performance steel and small soft slow cutting stone.

I can get a great paper cutting and skin scrap off hair with this combo but hair popping, hair whittling and treetoping hair is out of my league with this steel and stone.

I just feel its a great display of knowledge and skill.

If one can. Please share with us

The rules are.

Any cheap 440a blade just dull enough to not cut paper.
Any cheap pocket soft Arkansas stone with oil.

No other tools or sharpeners or strops.

Post pics
And share.
 
This one came pretty dull out of the box. 440A steel, the CRKT Hissatsu. I use it frequently (I do practice cutting with it, since it is my SD dedicated fixed blade and dulls quickly after every cutting session, mainly cardboard and old clothes) and always resharpened using my Smiths Ceramic Stone (1000 grit I believe).

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Never got it to treetop shave, but easily skin-contact shave, or as some call it scratch shaving with little pressure.

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So, I guess someone with more experience than me (most people here, actually, because I sharpen knives since 2002 aprox) would do a much better job on it.
 
Is not 440a, but 440c, one of the earlier CS Recon 1, still no picnic on Arkansas. I ran the edge across a few times before starting to remove the previous apex. The existing edge had good geometry and could just scrape off arm hairs. Thin film of oil on my old Softie and off to work. Is a real good example of the class and one of the first nicer stones I bought myself probably over twenty years ago. Felt good to take it out again, that old familiar scent of the cedar box.

Couldn't treetop arm hairs (my arm hair is mighty thin) but was able to clip a number of leg hairs 1/4" above the skin - two or three per pass of various length - so not "with authority", but not a fluke.

Edge appeared to be burr free at 20x, couldn't say for sure without doing some paper stropping or other testing that would have DQ'd it as being "right off the stone". Am pretty confident it would pass even closer inspection.

Raised burr, elevated just a tad for a few passes to eliminate, and then a number of light alternating passes at original angle.

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That actually looks like a great quality stone.
Not quite 440a but,
I won't take the victory from you :) that's some damn fine work.

Now teach me the ways of the Jedi! hahaha
 
DeadboxHero said:
That actually looks like a great quality stone.
Not quite 440a but,
I won't take the victory from you :) that's some damn fine work.

Now teach me the ways of the Jedi! hahaha
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Is all basics.

Stop and observe often.

Keep the stone in good shape by using with a bit of oil and a light touch.

Work in overlapping regions, raise the burr as evenly and as small as possible. Remove with the lightest pressure possible that still allows the abrasive to remove steel. This is why the condition of the stone is so important to best results. Removing the burr with a glazed or plugged natural stone is a lesson in frustration as the burr will flip before it gets removed. The more times it flips, the less force it needs each time. Is OK to kick it over a few times as long as it is getting steadily smaller every time.

Learn to feel where you are on the stone - the shoulder, edge, flat on the bevel - all have their own tactile markers. Work from the shoulder out to the edge. Aim for the highest level of precision you can feel - verify with frequent visual inspection.

Maybe the biggest factor, one that never has failed to yield improvement for me, and something I still do every so often - study your mechanical technique and do everything you can to reduce unintended angle wobble. However you have to hold the tool you're sharpening to get the best control. Sharpening is not cutting, the grip that affords the most control won't be the same for both actions. Making changes to this is not easy. There is always a period of adaptation where results might initially decline, but is the only way to teach yourself better mechanics. What works for the other person might not work for you, so trial and error is the only way forward. I also credit sharpening machetes freehand on smaller stones with teaching me quite a bit about flaws in my technique.

And finally, get a Washboard :D or at least watch the first video on the website where I cover a lot of basics applicable to all freehand. Makes it easier to correct issues with your technique by amplifying tactile feedback. I had good form before I started using mine, but the difference in mechanics is pretty obvious before and after - it translates to other stone forms readily, though it can make you lazy when it comes to finishing edges off...
 
Anybody that get any blade using any method to tree top has my admiration! Arm shaving is no big deal when the skin is touched, but tree topping? I've heard of it, but NEVER seen it in real. I did see the photo someone posted a while back of whitling hair - IMPRESSIVE to a simple old country boy like me!

Ken H>
 
Finally bought the stuff for the challenge.
$20 later,Here are my materials.








The knife is sharp enough to arm hair shave with out of the box.
It will cut newspaper but not great.


I attempted some very light edge leading strokes alternating each side. After several minutes I can pop the hairs but no treetoping.


After, I tried some light alternating edge trailing strokes, no improvement.

Think Ill hit it again tomorrow and re apex the edge.

I'll keep at it and post any improvements. Advice is welcome
 
If removing a burr is difficult/bothersome, don't form one. I sharpened for years without even knowing what a burr was, and got face shaving edges, though rough, off my Soft Arkansas stone, on Buck's 425 M steel. Just cut straight into the stone a time or 2 to get rid of any old edge and start fresh. Then shape the edge until you can't see light bouncing off the very edge. Now clean the stone and get all the old oil and dwarf off. Apply fresh oil, deburr, just in case, at about double the shaping angle, one light pass over side, and then apply a microbevel at the desired angle with very light edge leading passes. I don't have an Arkansas stone, nor a 440A knife, or it would be video time.
 
Martin, your Arkansas stone looks like a Washita and Hero's a soft Arkansas. ? Just me. DM
 
David, the box it came in was stamped

Soft Arkansas
B & G Abrasives

It may very well be in the range of a Washita. I've had these for a long time by my standards - close to 20 yrs.
 
me2 said:
... deburr, just in case, at about double the shaping angle, one light pass over side, and then apply a microbevel at the desired angle with very light edge leading passes. .
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me2 - could you elaborate a bit more about this? I am interested in what you mean with your approach. Thanks!
 
awestib said:
me2 - could you elaborate a bit more about this? I am interested in what you mean with your approach. Thanks!
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I know :) I use basically the same steps, this is method I use more or less how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton , all edge leading passes
- cut into stone to remove weakened metal and make dull edge reflective
- grind at 10dps fast scrubbing passes until reflection is gone or you raise a tiny burr
- then do alternating passes at 10dps to weaken the burr and stand it up
- then increase angle (at least double original) and cut off burr with 1-4 alternating passes per side at least , so 20dps could work, 30dps is better, 40dps also works (no brainer), don't go past 40 :)
- then microbevel with 1-20 light alternating passes at 15dps (or even 11dps or 12dps or 20dps )
- check shaving ability , cutting newspaper
- then cut off the burr again with double angle (optional, cut off the burr you cant feel or see)
- then microbevel again

when cutting off the burr or microbeveling, short strokes and doing the blade in sections (base, middle, tip) helps with angle control

also, if microbeveling isn't getting shaving sharp quickly, increase the angle ... my technique has improved now I can microbevel with +1 degree incrase, used to be I required at least +5
 
Yep that's it. I just take care to stop before a burr forms on burr stubborn steels. Its not really necessary to form one, so why do it if it takes so much effort to remove it?
 
awestib said:
Thanks ! This is all on the same stone I assume?
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yes, same stone
or
use a coarser stone to remove reflection / raise burr
then finer stone to deburr/microbevel

a flat stone is more important , esp for microbevel
also use a fine stone remove weakened metal and make dull edge reflective
diamonds seem to make too big a reflection ... more work ... at least the way i do it :)

me2 said:
Yep that's it. I just take care to stop before a burr forms on burr stubborn steels. Its not really necessary to form one, so why do it if it takes so much effort to remove it?
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:) when I started learning, i tried to go just by reflection ... ended up being way too slow
which was ok since I was using diamonds and didn't want to dislodge any

now i've been mostly practicing with dollar tree stones,
at times they can be slow and releasing a little slurry can require some 50+psi,
so checking for reflection more than once a minute is too slow for me
so I don't try too hard not to raise a burr
I do scrubbing passes at about 160/minute
so depending on my angle control, 1 to 4 minutes and a burr has snuck up on me :)
cutting it off and microbeveling carefully takes about a minute

some stones have grit contamination on one side (high spots) so I microbevel on the other side
or on 600 harbor freight diamond
 
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