Sharpening for Dummies

Jackknife, I agree. The way most of us started sharpening was by using that edge leading stroke. It is inefficient and allows the angle to change between each stroke. Keeping the knife on the stone and using a short back and forth stroke is much better. The circular is very good too. My Grandfather taught me this as it was called the cabinet makers style of sharpening. I use a small circle about the size of a quarter and finish off with a few edge leading strokes. These 'finishing off' leading strokes really help in removing the burr and cleaning up the edge. The more burr you can remove on the stone helps a lot. Especially later if you strop. DM
 
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While guided systems are convenient, and can help you learn to recognize the angles you need, there is no substitute for freehand. I would humbly and respectfully even go so far as to say that there is no excuse not to learn. Especially as a knife knut, opposed to a disinterested sportsman or housewife who just wants to saw at his/her deer/carrot and get the job done. Master freehand and you can sharpen anything.


My .02 worth on the Lansky: I had a guided lansky system 15 yrs ago, and found it retarded. Even as a newb, i instantly noticed that the angle you use is really not what you think it is. Blade width and length, as well as where you clamp the blade into the jig, will all affect the angle of the stones contact as the distance from the jig changes.
 
Perhaps Lansky has improved their system over fifteen years. I've used an angle finder and the current Lansky angle settings are within one or so degrees on the finder. I accept that as pretty danged good considering what it is.
And I'm a fuss budget with a precision mechanical inspector background measuring "true position" within .0001" in some instances...in others it was "mark one eyeball" lol.

But I do agree that all knife sharpening folk should know how to freehand and practice it. I do on all my larger fixed blades and feel satisfaction when I get the edge I want...and it happens hehehe
 
Lansky's set angles are only accurate (or close to) as measured to the immediate front edge of the clamp's jaws. Being that a knife edge can't be reached by the hone when set flush to the front edge of the clamp (because the clamp is in the way), the blade's edge will have to be positioned further out, which reduces the actual sharpening angle to something less than the marked setting used with the rod & hone. As a point of reference*, a blade edge positioned about 3/8" from the front edge of the clamp's jaws will sharpen up at approximately 14°-15° per side when using the '17' setting for the guide rod. Much wider blades that position the edge a couple inches or more away from the clamp's front edge, like large kitchen chef's knives or cleavers with very wide blades, will sharpen up at much, much lower angles than indicated by the setting used.

(* I verified the above on a relatively new clamp included with a Lansky diamond set bought about ~5 years or so ago, and it seemed similar to an older clamp I used in a Lansky 'Deluxe' 5-stone set that was ~20 years old or so, purchased back in the early '90s.)


David
 
Agreed...blade placement in the "jaws" of the Lansky are key to angle accuracy.
When placing a new knife for the first time I use the angle finder to match up the angle on the jaws to the actual angle shown on the finder. I place the hone at its' mid point in the center of the blade and move the blade in or out until it matches within a degree or two. I then take a pic of the knife in the holder so I don't have to try to remember where I placed it.
I did this most recently when reprofiling my ZT770cf to 17 degrees per side...lowest setting on the Lansky holder. I was pretty much on the money. I did scrub off a bit of the jaw at the corners but there was nothing I could do about it...I did not check the angles close to the handle and at the tip...I will next time as I'm now very curious about the angle at the extremes of the blade. There is no visible change in angle when looking visually but I suspect there will be.
The tips of the jaws/holder are at about the halfway point from edge to spine...generally...and that is what I seem to prefer though I could not tell you why other than it looks "right" lol.
 
OK... you wanted cheap and foolproof, and yet learn HOW to sharpen at the same time?
$12... DMT ABG Aligner Blade Guide / Knife Clamp - Amazon.com
$2 ... a couple of sheets of wet/dry sandpaper in grits 120, 360, 600, 1,000 - Hardware store
$3 ... beater knife from Salvation Army Store, preferably a French Chef 8" knife or other relatively straight edged knife

1.Lay a full sheet of 120 grit out on a flat counter.
2.Pull the guide bars out of the Aligner Clamp somewhere to a middle setting. The exact number is NOT important at the time, but having both sides the same is. Clamp the blade about mid-way between point and handle (on the spine of the blade, please.)
3. Lay the blade edge on the sandpaper with the guide bar OFF the side of the paper (Otherwise you will grind down the guide bar as you sharpen.)
4. Now scrub the blade back and forth, without using too much pressure, on the 120 grit sandpaper for five minutes. (You want to take off a LOT of metal This is why you are learning with a beater knife! ) By this time you probably have worked up a burr all along the top surface of the blade. If you draw your fingernail from spine to past the edge, you nail should just 'catch' on this burr. (If you bite your nails, rub the edge with a cotton ball or a Q-tip) If there isn't one, scrub for another 5 minutes. Often cheap knives are VERY VERY hard, and it takes a while to raise this burr. Better steel doesn't usually take as long.
5. Once you have a burr all the ENTIRE edge, turn the knife over and repeat the scrubbing until you have a substantial burr on this side.
Just for the sake of 'learning,' you may wish to repeat this scrubbing again on both sides to be sure it has been done. You wouldn't do it with a good blade as it removes a lot of metal.
6. Now, lay down the 360 grit and do it all again. Both sides. Perhaps twice. Do NOT turn over until you have a burr along the entire edge.
7. Now repeat this with the 600 grit and the 800 grit. By the time you've reached this 800 grit, you'll notice that the burr is much smaller. It STILL NEEDS TO BE THERE for you as a beginner. Later you'll actually 'feel' when the burr is just starting to form, but for now, raise up a good one!
8. Lay down the 1,000 grit, do the same, but don't worry so much about a large burr. Give the blade 50 strokes on one side, then 50 on the other. Then 40 on one side and 40 on the other, 25 and 25, 10 and 10, then alternate strokes with almost NO pressure except the weight of the knife on the paper. Perhaps 20 more alternating strokes.

You now have a VERY sharp knife. For less than $20 And... you've seen just what is important in the creation of that edge; consistent angle. Feel free to use this same method on any knife OTHER THAN a severe recurve or something with a very strong curve such as a buffalo skinner.

Should you wish to purchase the diamond stones for the DMT aligner, they are available. But as you've just seen, you can get a perfect edge using just sandpaper. You can pick up 2,000 grit paper, 4,000 - 15,000 grit polishing films, and strop and compounds to 60,000 grit or more. The technique is the same. You need to work up a burr to insure that you are removing enough metal from the edge to create a new apex.

Stitchawl
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Doing it correctly means maintaining the bevels flush to the stone, immediately tangent to a point that will become the new, crisp & sharp apex, and not scrubbing directly into the existing apex itself. Feeling for flush bevel contact comes with practice and experience, which obviously won't happen unless one does actually commit to practicing it. Variation in angle is inevitable in any freehand stroke; the key is to keep the variation above the apex (on the bevels), and not on the apex itself. I think of it as 'sneaking up' on the apex with each successive stroke, without undoing the good results at the apex created in previous strokes. And when the apex does get 'touched', it must be done with featherlight pressure. If that's done while still maintaining flush bevel contact, the only possible result is an apex that will be a little thinner and sharper than on the previous pass.

David
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This is a very important info. So many ways to skin a cat but it all comes down to create a burr free apex. Besides all the clamp and guided systems that may help you obtain the goal of a clean apex, it does not teach you the basics of sharpening at all and that may be the main reason for little success.

I have tried so many different ways of freehand sharpening and always, always come back to "my" method. Why, because my mechanics may work best this way or my muscle memory have gone this way or because it makes sense the most to me. In hindsight I wish someone would have showed me one-on-one how to do it although the different youtube videos tat are available today help.

What could help you more than a clamp system is the main understanding of what makes a knife sharp, then apply it. You may want to use angle wedges to train your muscle memory and you may want to go the route of applying a slightly more obtuse angle at the end (Microlevel) once you have ground the edge to an apex. This way you have success faster. But again, using wedges, angle guides like the Spyderco Sharpmaker etc. doe not replace the goal to understand sharpening or to improve the feel for the edge as OwE stated above.
 
While I agree with everyone's individual take on sharpening as being the 'best way for them' to get a repeatable edge, I think it's important to keep in mind that the new-to-sharpening individual often has absolutely NO IDEA what the heck we're talking about. 17° bevels, burr-free apex, microbevels at obtuse angles, etc., etc., etc.!

I learned to sharpen free-handed. I was about 8 yrs old and had a good teacher standing over me, watching to make sure I did everything exactly right. Those are the key words when sharpening... 'exactly right.' 'Cause if ya don't do it exactly right when free-handing, ya don't get a good, sharp edge.
That's why guided systems have become so popular. They are 'almost' idiot-proof. Almost.

For the new guy learning to sharpen by himself, he needs to see exactly how the blade should make contact with the abrasive. He should see that it makes contact at the same angle every single stroke, never varying. He needs to know that enough metal should be taken off of one side to create the start of the apex, and that he can get feed-back on that using the burr. He does NOT need to know (at this point in time) that a 15° will perform as a fishing knife better than a 20° edge, nor even that a 'microbevel' will make his edges last longer and cut better. For the newbie, he just needs to know how to get a good sharp edge. AFTER he internalizes that information, so it becomes a repeatable event, he can go on to the more advanced concepts of choosing a specific angle for the usage of the knife. He can begin to experiment with hand-holding the blade to replicate what the clamps or wedges do. He can start to plan out a microbevel.

But he's got to learn to walk before he learns to run, especially if he's teaching himself. True, there are some folks who can just jump into the pool and start swimming at the deep end (sorry to mix my metaphors) but a lot of good folk drown that way too...


Stitchawl
 
I already knew the theory behind sharpening. I bought a DMT aligner set and along with a Sharpie pen and a strong magnifier that system is almost foolproof.
 
To OP,

Many good advices from the masters here already. I suggest this thread to be stickied (or merged) with Mag's sharpening introduction that provides understanding what it is all about: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1014274-What-is-sharpening-a-knife-about

and (not stickied but very useful): www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/963298, having some good videos and photos.

Lastly, visit HeavyHanded's washboard site and his youtube channel (Neuman2010). His introduction to washboard is applicable to any freehand sharpening. His washboard also works so well with various sandpaper, plain paper and strop (paper + compound).
 
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One good source about how to sharpen freehand is Murray Carter, from Carter Cutlery. Have a look.

[video=youtube;CXLaE1JvQ94]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLaE1JvQ94[/video]
 
jackknife said:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

The edge leading sharpening stroke is the absolutely worst method ever taught to people. It is impossible to maintain a constant angle when you are taking your edge off the stone aftr every stroke. No way.

The circular stroke method is similar to the age old Japanese water stone techniques in that the edge being sharpened does not break contact with the stone until you are ready to work on the other side. I've taught totally newbies to sharpen in just minutes, using a small pocket stone and the small circle method. It's faster more accurate, and can be done on a small piece of almost anything, anywhere.
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I'm one of the guys that jackknife taught to sharpen in minutes. It was in a coffee shop and we used the bottom of one of their cups. Got a few funny looks, but I learned more that day about sharpening than ever before. I'd previously used an Edge Pro Apex and gotten some pretty spectacular edges. I thought it was a wonderful way to sharpen, but then my stones started wearing and the drill stop trick didn't seem to work as well as I'd hoped. I can get better edges on the Edge Pro, but I can get great edges freehand now, thanks to jackknife. :thumbup:

I've added to my knowledge of freehand sharpening by watching the videos on youtube. Some of them are great and some, are, well not so much.

One thing I've learned is that if you are using good technique, you have to keep at it until you get a sharp edge. I used to stop about 80% to 90% of the way because I doubted that it was working. I didn't realize that I was reshaping the edge and that usually doesn't happen quickly.

Good luck in your effort to learn to sharpen,
Allen
 
aread said:

One thing I've learned is that if you are using good technique, you have to keep at it until you get a sharp edge. I used to stop about 80% to 90% of the way because I doubted that it was working. I didn't realize that I was reshaping the edge and that usually doesn't happen quickly.

Good luck in your effort to learn to sharpen,
Allen
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This is huge ^. One has to understand what they're trying to accomplish at any given level, and how to tell where they are in terms of progress.
 
aread said:
(...)One thing I've learned is that if you are using good technique, you have to keep at it until you get a sharp edge. I used to stop about 80% to 90% of the way because I doubted that it was working. I didn't realize that I was reshaping the edge and that usually doesn't happen quickly.
(...)
Allen
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HeavyHanded said:
This is huge ^. One has to understand what they're trying to accomplish at any given level, and how to tell where they are in terms of progress.
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Ditto the above. Stopping short of a full apex is probably the biggest problem I struggled with early on; I had no clue how to tell when I was 'there' (that's what forming an obvious full-length burr is for, but I didn't know it at the time). I also think it's likely the most common issue getting in the way of anyone trying to learn, assuming other factors are under control (maintaining angle, good use of pressure).


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Ditto the above. Stopping short of a full apex is probably the biggest problem I struggled with early on; I had no clue how to tell when I was 'there' (that's what forming an obvious full-length burr is for, but I didn't know it at the time). I also think it's likely the most common issue getting in the way of anyone trying to learn, assuming other factors are under control (maintaining angle, good use of pressure).
David
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... which is why I'm an advocate of using a very simple clamp with sandpaper for the beginner sharpener (NOT so much for the advanced sharpener!)
There is only ONE thing to concentrate on, and that's forming a burr the full length of the blade. No thinking about maintaining a specific angle. No thinking about pressure. No thinking about good stones or bad, no thinking about anything... except forming a full length burr on both sides of the blade. When done with a cheap beater knife from the recycle shop so there's no worrying about removing too much steel, this is a perfect way to introduce the concept of creating a perfect apex. After that has been internalized, the new sharpener can proceed to the next step, be that freehand use of stones, or guided systems choosing the specific angle desired, etc., etc.


Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
... which is why I'm an advocate of using a very simple clamp with sandpaper for the beginner sharpener (NOT so much for the advanced sharpener!)
There is only ONE thing to concentrate on, and that's forming a burr the full length of the blade. No thinking about maintaining a specific angle. No thinking about pressure. No thinking about good stones or bad, no thinking about anything... except forming a full length burr on both sides of the blade. When done with a cheap beater knife from the recycle shop so there's no worrying about removing too much steel, this is a perfect way to introduce the concept of creating a perfect apex. After that has been internalized, the new sharpener can proceed to the next step, be that freehand use of stones, or guided systems choosing the specific angle desired, etc., etc.


Stitchawl
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^^That's how I found my first obvious burr, when sharpening one of my own knives using a Lansky clamped system. I'd gone far enough past a full apex, that the burr which formed was HUGE. Even then, I didn't immediately recognize it for what it was; I saw this big, paper-thin sliver of steel just break off the edge onto my fingertip when 'feeling' for a sharp edge, and I thought something was seriously wrong with my blade. Then, about 2-3 seconds later, the 'light bulb' of epiphany came on in my head... :D

Lesson learned, and never forgotten. :thumbup:


David
 
The Idahone V-Type sharpeners are idiot proof and made of the best ceramic. They "teach" you how to sharpen by hand by fixing the correct angle on course and fine rods. I have been using them 20 years, and the V type is the model I give to my newbie friends and family. I get everything direct from them at www.idahone.com
No electric sharpeners!
Good luck.
 
I still think freehanding is something you should "graduate" to. When I think back to my first efforts with it 45 years ago, I realize how I was just wasting my time. NOW, I am probably ready to successfully do freehanding. I may play around with it some soon although with the belt sander I bought, the incentive to do so is low.

jdavis882 is an example of someone who went to freehanding AFTER he had become expert with the Sharpmaker and the Edgepro.
 
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