Sharpening

[GatorFlash1]

Noreaster-


Couple of comments. Are you keen on push cutting (like a razor or a knife that cuts paper) or slice cutting (rope, turkey, skin a deer, etc.). I think the sharpening technique depends on what your goal is.

I have had great luck with Spyderco Tri Angle Sharpmaker for quick jobs. It has preset edge angles and it is pretty easy to hold the knife vertical when sharpening in order to get these angles. It is compact also. Here is a link showing Sal Glesser, Spyderco Owner, using the sharpner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0r6GvESGg&feature=related


For really fine sharpening I use the Edge Pro. It doesn't have present angles, you set whatever you want, and you can use all kinds of stones on it. Here is a link to a demo that shows you how it works. The sharpening on the Sharpmaker and Edge Pro is a manual process. The knife makers have expensive machines but my knife sharpener budget doesn't run into the thousands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=satj4Yf4mtE

What do you think?

 

[daizee]

What grit is your DMT 8"?

If you are getting workable results with that, I recommend stropping afterwards. I bet you're closer than you think...

I've heard the worksharp is a good way to screw up a blade in a hurry - I've found that to be true with power sanders in general!

 

[DerekH]

I can understand getting poor results with the Lansky setup. Those things can be all over the place if you aren't careful. For wavy edges, that is more of a steady hand/practice thing, at least in my experience. I have heard good things about the Spyderco Sharpmaker thingy, so that might be the ticket if you are not looking to buy more stuff (if you are that KME Sharpener Moose was shilling for is pretty nice and pretty easy to use).

Basically, the theory I have heard works best with a knife is to sharpen one side until you have a burr (lower grit first obviously) then flip it over and finish that side. Then flip it over, switch to lower grit, rinse, and repeat. Eventually you will be at a high grit, and your burr will be pretty darn small if not gone completely. At that point you would want to strop your knife to remove the burr or knock the extreme edge off the shoulders of your edge.

Now that is the basic gist of it. The details are where the devil lurks and such. How are you moving the rods/stones/etc... when you are using the sharpening system? Do you do a circular pattern with the stone, do you bring it down slowly over the length of the edge, do you just work one section then move on to the next? Do you use any type of oil when you are using the stones/rods/etc...? That might be something to consider there.

Any pics you can get us of an edge you have worked will help us further identify any issues you might be having as well if at all possible.

Either way, you are in a good place, and we will get you sorted.

 

[Sherlock19]

well i was wondering how easy sharpening would be, i purchased a spyderco sharpmaker a while back but i think its safe to say i will be sending all my expensive knifes to Albert Edmonds once i need to. Similar to the op im no where near a pro and i would hate to damage any of my knifes that ive spent a decent amount of money on, based on a rookie mistake. Perhaps i may gain confidence in the long run, we shall see.

 

[tomsch]

I use two systems. For reprofiling I use my Edge Pro. It does take the same kind of focus as any system in terms of raising a burr and making sure you spend the same amount of time on each side of the blade. I typically reprofile at <20 degrees per side so I can touch up using fine Sharpmaker stones at 20 degrees per side. The only exception is my kitchen knives which are taken down more to 14 degrees per side.

 

[northingeasting]

All,

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I didn't want to elaborate more on my issues before I got some input because I wanted to hear what worked for you.

My situation isn't as bleak as I first indicated. I can get a fair working edge on most blades using the tools at hand, but my results are very inconsistent. Some blades good, other blades bad. My preferred tools are the DMT Duosharp (coarse/fine) for most blades and for kitchen ware a Wustohof sharpening steel.

As I said, my real issue is inconsistency and my goal is consistency across all blade styles and sizes. I also want the ability to re-profile an edge; I see a lot of factory knives with poor edge profiles and I want to be able to clean those up when the mood strikes. However, I don't want to get into power tools for this. Early in my knife accumulation days I burned more than one edge playing 'Bob Loveless at the grinder' and the results still haunt me

Right now I'm looking hard at the Edge Pro Apex system. It isn't cheap, but I'm impressed by what I see in the design and construction.

 

[Blunt Forged Edge]

If you ever make it up to Seattle, I teach free hand sharpening courses.

You know, I just might have to do that down the road and hopefully soon enough.

 

[Catmouth]

I am not a great sharpener. I have been practicing more and more as I have been getting into knives and the doors again. I was getting pretty good results with a few DMT stones and then I tried using sandpaper/mousepad. Got better results. Then the thing that pushed my edges up the most was using a strop. I don't have hair whittling sharp, but I do have very sharp knives.


Good luck and keep with it. You will find what works for you I am sure.

 

[tincansurvival]

I bought a cheaply made 440c knife and sharpened and dulled it for a couple of days until I got the results I wanted. Only then did I move on to my other knives. Now my Worksharp has become the re-profiler, and the mouse pad/sand paper trick puts me to just where I like. If I'm going to store the knife for a while I'll strope and finish the knife to make it shine.*

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I could probably help you with the calculus...

What made the difference for me in sharpening was the sharpie trick. Makes it a lot easier to get the burr going, and if you dont get the burr, you dont get anything.

 

[boosted1jz]

wicked edge bam!

 

[AnIdiotOutdoors]

I think the problem is not the system but the technique. I used a Spyderco Sharpmaker for years and it would get a knife sharp enough to shave hair off my arm if all the circumstances were right. I still wasn't getting the crazy sharp edge I wanted so I ordered a Wicked Edge, which was backordered forever. While it was backordered, I read about the system obsessively. I can now produce extremely sharp, high-polished edges with little work; some of that is the system; but a lot of it is knowledge from reading about sharpening for several months.

The two biggest things that made a difference for me were:

1. Learning how to identify and choose the right angle for the knife I was sharpening.
2. Learning to feel the burr and making sure I raised a burr on both sides when sharpening.

Do you have those two concepts down well?

 

[northingeasting]

I think the problem is not the system but the technique. I used a Spyderco Sharpmaker for years and it would get a knife sharp enough to shave hair off my arm if all the circumstances were right. I still wasn't getting the crazy sharp edge I wanted so I ordered a Wicked Edge, which was backordered forever. While it was backordered, I read about the system obsessively. I can now produce extremely sharp, high-polished edges with little work; some of that is the system; but a lot of it is knowledge from reading about sharpening for several months.

The two biggest things that made a difference for me were:

1. Learning how to identify and choose the right angle for the knife I was sharpening.
2. Learning to feel the burr and making sure I raised a burr on both sides when sharpening.

Do you have those two concepts down well?

I've used the magic marker technique for years, and it makes it easy to initially identify the correct angle. It's maintaining that angle through the freehand sharpening process that is the problem. Actually with the DMT Duosharp I can raise the burr on both sides, but viewing the edge in reflected light I can tell the edge is not consistent and it's certainly not as good as it can be. These knives have a lot of potential and I want to bring it all out.

 

[DerekH]

Let me get some pics cobbled together and I will show you my process for convexing a knife edge and getting it sharp.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Freehanding all the way. There are three basic areas that seem simple enough (and they are), but they require refined technique that comes with patience and time:

1. Pressure
2. Angle
3. Edge refinement

Most novice sharpeners are getting one or all of those things wrong. The needed pressure is usually a lot lighter than we think; when you get down to the finest grit stones and you are finishing your edge, the pressure needs to be feather light. Angle consistency just takes practice and knowing what your angles are. They don't have to be perfect (and they never will be freehand), but they have to be correct for your intended purpose and consistent. When it comes to edge refinement, you have to get the burr off and polish the edge. That just takes practice to know.

I made a post in the Maintenance & Tinkering forum that you might like:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...advice-for-newbie-knife-sharpeners-(freehand)

 

[DerekH]

Alright, here is how I do my stuff, and it doesn't require any fancy systems or anything like that. My edges probably don't look perfect under super close scrutiny, but they look fairly decent to me, and they are sharp.

First, on any knife I get, I will do this process shown here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tory-edge-to-convex-with-the-BK2-(and-others)

This knocks the shoulders off the edge, making it rounded and taking it from this:

To this:

This will make the angle between the primary grind and the edge bevel smooth and continuous instead of a sharp abrupt change. (The pic is not to scale or accurate as far as angle or anything, merely an illustration.)

Next, I sharpen like this:

Going from the base of the blade to the tip. The trick is to always make sure your blade edge is perpendicular to the direction you are moving the knife, and that you always have the sharpening tool in contact with the edge. Because of this you have to rotate the blade as you move it along to keep the edge in contact with the sharpening media. Imagine the Red rectangle as either one of those nail files I showed in the thread I linked, or one of my leather strops. I flip the knife each time, thus ensuring that my edge is consistent and smooth. This process generally does not generate a "burr" and while that might throw people, it works for me.

Then, after doing this for awhile, I switch it up and go the other way, from tip to base, like this:

I repeat this process until the knife feels sharp to the touch, then test it to see if it will shave hair, cut paper, etc... If not, rinse, repeat until it does.

The beauty of it is once you get the grip down on how to hold it to ensure the proper angle, it goes pretty quick, and is fairly forgiving if you screw it up. This probably isn't the best method, but it works for me and I know my knives are sharp. ThePointyEnd can attest to this as well.

The trick with the strop is to not overload it with compound, and to make sure you have a solid piece of leather that fits the wood backing. Anyways, I hope this helps you get it figured out. My process took awhile to learn, but I had been freehand sharpening my knives since I was a kid, so I had a bit of a head start. Once you get it though, it goes quick, and you can get through it pretty fast.

 

[Zuluninja]

this may sound silly, but once I tried it I have stuck to it when freehanding v's on a stone, not convexing.

I watched the movie "Ninja Assassin" and there's a scene where they are sharpening their blades on a wetstone. They are kneeling in front of this huge stone, grabbing the blades with both hands and going back and forth over it, as if they were scraping off a sticker.

Now, I don't have a huge stone like they did and didn't grab the blade with both hands, but I tried on a fairly flat section of my old stone and I was able to not only do it faster, but get a straighter bevel by working the edge in sections, starting tip to belly and then the rest of the blade. After doing the fine stone and a stropping (yes, it doesn't need to be convexed to strop it) my knives always come out shaving sharp. Remember to do the same amount of strop strokes per side, I may do 20, then 10, then 5, 3 per side before going 1 per like barbers do. Having 2 loaded strops, one coarse and one fine helps to refine it more.

I resisted letting go of the old mentality of slicing the top, come back and do it again before just scraping back and forth without lifting the edge off the stone, but it was worth it. I still do the slicing top method for quick touch ups, but for a fast and even edge the scraping method works, at least for me. Give it a try!

And also watch "Ninja Assassin". It's a kick ass movie

 

[GatorFlash1]

well i was wondering how easy sharpening would be, i purchased a spyderco sharpmaker a while back but i think its safe to say i will be sending all my expensive knifes to Albert Edmonds once i need to. Similar to the op im no where near a pro and i would hate to damage any of my knifes that ive spent a decent amount of money on, based on a rookie mistake. Perhaps i may gain confidence in the long run, we shall see.

Practice with the kitchen knives. It really is pretty easy to do.

 

[northingeasting]

Derek,

Thanks! A great post. Do you do illustrations for a living?

Alright, here is how I do my stuff, and it doesn't require any fancy systems or anything like that. My edges probably don't look perfect under super close scrutiny, but they look fairly decent to me, and they are sharp.

First, on any knife I get, I will do this process shown here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tory-edge-to-convex-with-the-BK2-(and-others)

This knocks the shoulders off the edge, making it rounded and taking it from this:

To this:

This will make the angle between the primary grind and the edge bevel smooth and continuous instead of a sharp abrupt change. (The pic is not to scale or accurate as far as angle or anything, merely an illustration.)

Next, I sharpen like this:

Going from the base of the blade to the tip. The trick is to always make sure your blade edge is perpendicular to the direction you are moving the knife, and that you always have the sharpening tool in contact with the edge. Because of this you have to rotate the blade as you move it along to keep the edge in contact with the sharpening media. Imagine the Red rectangle as either one of those nail files I showed in the thread I linked, or one of my leather strops. I flip the knife each time, thus ensuring that my edge is consistent and smooth. This process generally does not generate a "burr" and while that might throw people, it works for me.

Then, after doing this for awhile, I switch it up and go the other way, from tip to base, like this:

I repeat this process until the knife feels sharp to the touch, then test it to see if it will shave hair, cut paper, etc... If not, rinse, repeat until it does.

The beauty of it is once you get the grip down on how to hold it to ensure the proper angle, it goes pretty quick, and is fairly forgiving if you screw it up. This probably isn't the best method, but it works for me and I know my knives are sharp. ThePointyEnd can attest to this as well.

The trick with the strop is to not overload it with compound, and to make sure you have a solid piece of leather that fits the wood backing. Anyways, I hope this helps you get it figured out. My process took awhile to learn, but I had been freehand sharpening my knives since I was a kid, so I had a bit of a head start. Once you get it though, it goes quick, and you can get through it pretty fast.

 

[thatotherguy]

I'd say the Sharpmaker, but with your list of failed systems I'd say the Wicked Edge is for you. There is almost zero user variables to mess up with that one.
With that said, I still advocate getting a few of the infamous $1 knives (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about) file the serrations off (just trying to get the serrations off, no need to be precise now) and go to town on them with a stone. That's how I learned to freehand.
When trying freehand sharpening do you drag the blade across the stone slowly?