Sharping thick hunting knifes (Aogami Super and Shirogami #2 steel

Someonesomewhere said:
It gets sharp but I know for a fact it can get sharper as the kitchen knife I own by him almost same thickness gets a lot sharper than these two are. as proven by the video I posted.
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Thickness behind the edge or at the spine?

I'm leaning towards maybe a little cleanup at courser grit may be needed before moving to the finer stone, especially if you've been through this routine a few times already.

I guess one other factor could be if your finer stone is dished and needs flattened, but that would affect all of your knives sharpened with it.
 
Someonesomewhere said:
Hand forged in the 15 layer Koubuse lamination method.
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From powder or virgin steel?


Is the steel powdered? Did they beat this knife out of a block or was it layered with powdered steels?


True out the forged is gummy. Like 1095.


Powdered is s30v and the Asian equivalent.


You're asking what's going on with the burr.


Stop trying to sell me a knife. I'm the guy that's sharpens said purchase.
 
Grasshopperglock said:
From powder or virgin steel?


Is the steel powdered? Did they beat this knife out of a block or was it layered with powdered steels?


True out the forged is gummy. Like 1095.


Powdered is s30v and the Asian equivalent.


You're asking what's going on with the burr.


Stop trying to sell me a knife. I'm the guy that's sharpens said purchase.
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I am not trying to sell any thing I am just trying to figure out what is going on with these two knives lol

Aogami and Shirogami are virgin steels made by Hitachi they are carbon steel's Shirogami being almost pure carbon steel while Aogami has a few other elements in it to increase its durability but still pretty much a pure carbon steel.
 
Grasshopperglock said:
From powder or virgin steel?


Is the steel powdered? Did they beat this knife out of a block or was it layered with powdered steels?


True out the forged is gummy. Like 1095.


Powdered is s30v and the Asian equivalent.


You're asking what's going on with the burr.


Stop trying to sell me a knife. I'm the guy that's sharpens said purchase.
Click to expand...

You're really not being helpful here...:rolleyes:
 
bikerector said:
Thickness behind the edge or at the spine?

I'm leaning towards maybe a little cleanup at courser grit may be needed before moving to the finer stone, especially if you've been through this routine a few times already.

I guess one other factor could be if your finer stone is dished and needs flattened, but that would affect all of your knives sharpened with it.
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I am not understanding 100% what your asking sorry.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
They are ingot steels, and known for purity. Not sure what you're getting at here honestly.
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The burr on powdered steel doesn't act the same as forged.

If you can form an apex and it's on point. Razor.


The burr fell off in dust.

The complete opposite of gummy forged.
 
Someonesomewhere said:
I am not understanding 100% what your asking sorry.
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In the OP you mentioned the thickness being 1/4", which has to be at the spine. You can also go by "thickness behind the edge" which is how thick the steel is at the transition from the primary grind to the edge bevel. This comes into consideration when you say you can get a similarly thick kitchen knife really sharp but not your hunting knife at the same thickness. A thicker measurement behind the edge will create more drag while cutting and feel less sharp, even if the edge is actually quite sharp. This is more apparent if you look at a scandi grind compared to a full flat grind.

What's odd is that you have similar thickness knives in the same steel from the same maker but you're getting different results. So, something is obviously different. By the information you've shared, with the bur, the use of a sharpy and so on, you should have good results. Especially if you can get a similarly beveled kitchen knife sharp.

I do wonder what your whole sharpening process looks like, and why that would work for the kitchen knife and not the hunting knife.

Have you looked at the edge under magnification? I'm wondering if there's something strange going on with carbide tearout, but that's not so common with those 2 steels, maybe AS more than White 2. They aren't especially known for difficulty in sharpening and well known for being able to take a really nice, thin edge, as you're already aware.

The last thing I can think to offer would be to try sharpening at a less acute angle. Maybe the way the knives were made just don't like a thinner edge, which I've seen occasionally while sharpening but usually that becomes much more obvious from use. Those 2 steels aren't ones I've had trouble with but maybe the layering is causing something uncommon.
 
Grasshopperglock said:
Good thread
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essen_wos9.gif
 
Also, could you provide pictures of the knives? That would help give us context.

And maybe I'm thinking this through wrong, is this one hunting knife with white 2 and one in AS or one knife with layers of both AS and white 2?
 
bikerector said:
In the OP you mentioned the thickness being 1/4", which has to be at the spine. You can also go by "thickness behind the edge" which is how thick the steel is at the transition from the primary grind to the edge bevel. This comes into consideration when you say you can get a similarly thick kitchen knife really sharp but not your hunting knife at the same thickness. A thicker measurement behind the edge will create more drag while cutting and feel less sharp, even if the edge is actually quite sharp. This is more apparent if you look at a scandi grind compared to a full flat grind.

What's odd is that you have similar thickness knives in the same steel from the same maker but you're getting different results. So, something is obviously different. By the information you've shared, with the bur, the use of a sharpy and so on, you should have good results. Especially if you can get a similarly beveled kitchen knife sharp.

I do wonder what your whole sharpening process looks like, and why that would work for the kitchen knife and not the hunting knife.

Have you looked at the edge under magnification? I'm wondering if there's something strange going on with carbide tearout, but that's not so common with those 2 steels, maybe AS more than White 2. They aren't especially known for difficulty in sharpening and well known for being able to take a really nice, thin edge, as you're already aware.

The last thing I can think to offer would be to try sharpening at a less acute angle. Maybe the way the knives were made just don't like a thinner edge, which I've seen occasionally while sharpening but usually that becomes much more obvious from use. Those 2 steels aren't ones I've had trouble with but maybe the layering is causing something uncommon.
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I understand you know my apologies. Yes it is much thicker being the edge than the kitchen knife. I would consider the two in question a compound bevel grind as it goes from the table to almost the edge then a micro bevel for the last 1-2 mm .
 
Someonesomewhere said:
https://imgur.com/a/8aXjgZl

Top is Shirogami
bottom is Aogami
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Sorry, I now see you did share those on the previous page. Imgur didn't want to load them on my desktop for some reason.

So these are layers of the same steel? I'll be honest, I've not heard of that before.

In any case, if nothing I've mentioned up to this point doesn't help, I'm out of ideas without seeing them in person to inspect the edge myself and see what's going on. To me, is seems like the bur isn't getting removed or the steel isn't supporting the thin edge like you're used to. On some of the high vanadium steels, I don't like to sharpen at the finer level as I think they work getting at the course grits, but normally the steels you're working with don't fall into that category. We're talking S30V, S90V, and similar higher wear resistance steels with a lot of carbides. I could see the Aogami Super doing this to some degree, but not the white 2 unless something strange happened in heat treating.

I hope you're able to figure it. Those are pretty neat knives.

As a side thought, are you able to at least get the flat area sharp, and maybe not that the tanto tip? Normally, you sharpen the straight and the tip like they're 2 different edges.
 
Ever wonder how modern damascus steel is made?


It's not some guy in his shop beating it out.


The pattern in the layers can be programmed. Insuring the same design in replicate blades.


Powdered steels by 3D print...sorta.



Raw stock is like $4 a foot. Blade thick enough, 1" wide or tall. Depends on how you look at it.

Installed in $300-$600 knives. With WE knives using the technology.


Welcome to 2024. We can do some crazy stuff. Stuff you can hold in a pocket knife.
 
bikerector said:
Sorry, I now see you did share those on the previous page. Imgur didn't want to load them on my desktop for some reason.

So these are layers of the same steel? I'll be honest, I've not heard of that before.

In any case, if nothing I've mentioned up to this point doesn't help, I'm out of ideas without seeing them in person to inspect the edge myself and see what's going on. To me, is seems like the bur isn't getting removed or the steel isn't supporting the thin edge like you're used to. On some of the high vanadium steels, I don't like to sharpen at the finer level as I think they work getting at the course grits, but normally the steels you're working with don't fall into that category. We're talking S30V, S90V, and similar higher wear resistance steels with a lot of carbides. I could see the Aogami Super doing this to some degree, but not the white 2 unless something strange happened in heat treating.

I hope you're able to figure it. Those are pretty neat knives.

As a side thought, are you able to at least get the flat area sharp, and maybe not that the tanto tip? Normally, you sharpen the straight and the tip like they're 2 different edges.
Click to expand...

I understand that it is required to sharpen the tanto style one at two different angles I used the almost the same technique I did for my sakimaru takohiki kinda apples to oranges though as that is a single bevel knife. Yet I can achieve and form a burr even on the tip of both

https://imgur.com/a/H6CJcSr
 
Grasshopperglock said:
Ever wonder how modern damascus steel is made?


It's not some guy in his shop beating it out.


The pattern in the layers can be programmed. Insuring the same design in replicate blades.


Powdered steels by 3D print...sorta.



Raw stock is like $4 a foot. Blade thick enough, 1" wide or tall. Depends on how you look at it.

Installed in $300-$600 knives. With WE knives using the technology.


Welcome to 2024. We can do some crazy stuff. Stuff you can hold in a pocket knife.
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure nothing in 3d printed on his work.

 
Someonesomewhere said:
I understand that it is required to sharpen the tanto style one at two different angles I used the almost the same technique I did for my sakimaru takohiki kinda apples to oranges though as that is a single bevel knife. Yet I can achieve and form a burr even on the tip of both

https://imgur.com/a/H6CJcSr
Click to expand...

Yeah, then by all accounts it seems like you're doing everything the way it's supposed to be done.
 
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