Sharpmaker rods maintenance?

[Obsessed with Edges]

There was a post earlier this year from someone who had cleaned up his Fathers old ceramic rods which apparently had never been cleaned. I think it involved soaking them in a solution in a zip lock bag, was very good method for really ingrained metal. I wrote it down but have lossed it. If he is reading this maybe he could repeat the method.

That was me. I gave the BKF soak treatment to a couple of ceramic rods my Dad used with a V-crock sharpener. They were heavily loaded. I just put a liberal amount of the BKF (Bar Keepers Friend) powder in a gallon-size Zip-Loc, with enough water to make a fairly thick 'soup' of the stuff - enough to fully immerse the rods. Then sealed it up, put it aside and bascially forgot about if for a few days (3+). Didn't have to do hardly any scrubbing that way and just rinsed them off afterward.

 

[cudgee]

That was me. I gave the BKF soak treatment to a couple of ceramic rods my Dad used with a V-crock sharpener. They were heavily loaded. I just put a liberal amount of the BKF (Bar Keepers Friend) powder in a gallon-size Zip-Loc, with enough water to make a fairly thick 'soup' of the stuff - enough to fully immerse the rods. Then sealed it up, put it aside and bascially forgot about if for a few days (3+). Didn't have to do hardly any scrubbing that way and just rinsed them off afterward.

Thankyou David. This time i will write it down in my book that i keep for handy hints, so i don't lose it again. Thanks again David, much appreciated. You are a wealth of knowledge.

 

[severtecher]

I've had my current Sharp maker for 15 years. It 's my second one. I gave the original one to my son.
To clean it I put it in a tall glass jar (Nestea) with water and a few drops of soap. I put it in my Ultrasonic cleaner, about $35, for 10 to 15 minutes.
I remove them and scrub them green Scotch Brite and powdered Barkeeper's Friend. All 4 stones clean up in 5 to 10 minutes. I might replace it in 10 or 15 years. Makes for a razor sharp blade most knives.

 

[Spey]

I have the spyderco sharpmaker and both white and brown rods are getting blackened. I’m assuming that’s the steel getting embedded into them and was wondering a couple things. How long do they last before needing replacement and what should I be doing to maintain them?

Great list of replies already delineating various corrective maintenance options.

RE: "I’m assuming that’s the steel"
Most likely yes "steel getting embedded" along with ANY and EVERYTHING that may have been on the blade (tape residue, etc., etc.) from ANY previous sharpening session provided first step in sharpening, of cleaning the blade, is not followed.

RE: "How long do they last before needing replacement"
I would think forever, with typical maintenance. Unless the stones are physically damaged (like chips, etc.), the stones were designed to last. Decades back Sal mentioned the great pains they went through to source construction and composition of their stones as related to LONG TERM performance.

RE: "what should I be doing to maintain them"
Clean them, and dress them like any other sharpening media. ANY debris on the stone is going to impede/degrade its potential performance.

I recently got a 2nd hand Sharpmaker (probably 10+ years old) where the owner said it would not work. Cleaned and dressed the stones and they now work just fine (so long as user stays away from the allowing the chipped corners to index the edge).

Typical of any stone;
After you get them clean, keep the clean. Clean before putting them away so they are ready for next use, clean them as you use them, as needed. Dress them when cutting performance declines.

Only clean stones cut clean bevels.

 

[Papilio]

Great list of replies already delineating various corrective maintenance options.

RE: "I’m assuming that’s the steel"
Most likely yes "steel getting embedded" along with ANY and EVERYTHING that may have been on the blade (tape residue, etc., etc.) from ANY previous sharpening session provided first step in sharpening, of cleaning the blade, is not followed.

RE: "How long do they last before needing replacement"
I would think forever, with typical maintenance. Unless the stones are physically damaged (like chips, etc.), the stones were designed to last. Decades back Sal mentioned the great pains they went through to source construction and composition of their stones as related to LONG TERM performance.

RE: "what should I be doing to maintain them"
Clean them, and dress them like any other sharpening media. ANY debris on the stone is going to impede/degrade its potential performance.

I recently got a 2nd hand Sharpmaker (probably 10+ years old) where the owner said it would not work. Cleaned and dressed the stones and they now work just fine (so long as user stays away from the allowing the chipped corners to index the edge).

Typical of any stone;
After you get them clean, keep the clean. Clean before putting them away so they are ready for next use, clean them as you use them, as needed. Dress them when cutting performance declines.

Only clean stones cut clean bevels.

How do you dress them? I have seen SiC powder and diamond abrasives, too.
By the way, Sal Glesser does not see any need to dress the fine or ultrafine rods / stones (as far as I remember). The medium rods / stones will wear. But F and UF should work virtually forever, until you don't break them.
Some guys say that they use their rods for decades. With a proper cleaning they work like new. Others say that they need to be dressed / resurfaced from time to time.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Lately at home, I've been using a small Lansky triangular ceramic for on-the-fly touchups of some of my daily-carry knives. I've been liking it - it seems a little more aggressive than Spyderco's Fine, maybe similar in aggression to their Medium or slightly finer. It was originally part of a Lansky guided kit as a dedicated hone for serrations. I'd actually never used it with the guide. But in the last year or so, I decided to remove it from the Lansky guide-rod holder and dedicate it to freehand use.

Since the hone was already 'as new' and clean, I decided to place special emphasis on keeping it clean with every use. That means I've either used a simple pink eraser (most of the time), and sometimes also applying a single drop of mineral oil to it before use and then rubbing an additional drop or two of oil on the surface after use, to lift the swarf and wipe it away with a microfiber towel. I've been impressed at how well that oil works in keeping the swarf from sticking / embedding in the first place, and then in how easily it's wiped away afterward. The pic below speaks for itself, as it looks right now and after I've used it repeatedly over the last many months. It emphasizes that keeping them clean is about 99.99% of the job in keeping them working well over time. If you do that consistently, you'll likely never need to dress or refinish them, or even replace them due to clogging or wear.

Part of the wear factor is in how such hones are used - the brown/medium Spyderco and other brown/grey ceramics are known to shed some grit over time, due to differences in how the grit is bound/fused together in those (different 'carrier' for the grit). And if they're used a lot for HEAVY grinding & reprofiling, the wear will be accelerated over time. But the 'wheelhouse' for these is really in the refining & touchup ballpark, where a light touch and not too many passes on the hones are key. Used as such, these will almost never wear enough to warrant replacement or re-dressing.

 

[Papilio]

Obsessed with Edges : The rod looks brand new. I am very impressed.
Good to know that it is possible to have a lifetime sharpening device with proper care.
Brown / grey ceramics are more porous and will soak water / oil if applied. On the contrary to the white rods. Would you apply oil on a medium ceramic, too?

I found this video interesting: A.G. Russell on Ceramic Sharpening Rods. The part, where he talks about cleaning / maintenance starts at 6:00. He says more or less the same. Clean it properly and it will work as if brand new. And you can keep your blade sharp virtually forever.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Obsessed with Edges : The rod looks brand new. I am very impressed.
Good to know that it is possible to have a lifetime sharpening device with proper care.
Brown / grey ceramics are more porous and will soak water / oil if applied. On the contrary to the white rods. Would you apply oil on a medium ceramic, too?

I found this video interesting: A.G. Russell on Ceramic Sharpening Rods. The part, where he talks about cleaning / maintenance starts at 6:00. He says more or less the same. Clean it properly and it will work as if brand new. And you can keep your blade sharp virtually forever.

Yes, I've used oil on the medium as well. I have an older 8" x 2" Spyderco Medium bench hone (as well as a Fine), on which I've used oil with essentially every use. I'd say it's even more worthwhile on the medium stone due to the faster & more aggressive nature of it, which generates more swarf and therefore the greater need to keep it from embedding. Shouldn't worry about oil soaking into the hone - it won't harm anything. And if you want to clean most of that up, a bath in warm water with liquid dish soap, scrubbing with an old toothbrush will do the job - I've cleaned mine in that manner, occasionally.

The oil makes the biggest difference in keeping the swarf from clinging to the surface in the first place, which makes it a lot easier to clean up, literally just wiping it off with a rag. I can't emphasize that enough. This isn't to say that other methods commonly used, like scrubbing with an eraser, would be inadequate for these. But oiling the hone just takes it up a notch in ease of maintenance over the longer term.

 

[Papilio]

Thank you very much. I will give it a try.

 

[Spey]

How do you dress them? I have seen SiC powder and diamond abrasives, too.
By the way, Sal Glesser does not see any need to dress the fine or ultrafine rods / stones (as far as I remember). The medium rods / stones will wear. But F and UF should work virtually forever, until you don't break them.
Some guys say that they use their rods for decades. With a proper cleaning they work like new. Others say that they need to be dressed / resurfaced from time to time.

Sic or Diamond.
Be it a powdered form on a glass plate, or against another stone such that the abrasive used in dressing process is of coarser granular structure than the stone being dressed and focus is paid to the part of the stone in need. Like with anything, done with thought and care.

In all honesty, I use Sharpemaker stones fairly little but treat them the same way I do cleaning & dressing other stones. Example: say I have a 400 grit stone that is center-dishing and/or not cutting well. I will (under running water) rub the stone against another of lower grit (80-120 example) to dress the 400 stone (focusing on two things during the process 1) remove the high areas progressively and evenly 2) expose fresh grit along entire surface of stone being dressed. I did same with previously mentioned (Post #24) 2nd-hand stones from Sharpmaker.

Yes, I can remember Sal discussing that dressing of the White ceramic is not needed (however in my experience, dressing improves cutting performance on both the White AL (Alumina) Ceramic and Brown Medium CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride). The reason (I believe) that Sal mentioned no need for dressing is two fold 1) he went to great lengths AND expense to introduce a stone that was superior to others in its day (market as semi-maintenance free is good marketing) 2) the actual relative need for dressing being minimal (up to point tool has had a fair amount of use or been pressed in more difficult tasks than simple touch-ups). This does not mean the process is non-effective. In all reality, I believe too many folks believe the SharpMaker is all you need ... (well we all have varied levels of need/application). If one accepts the OEM geometry and has little need to reprofile secondary bevels and/or primary bevels ..., and is merely interested in touching up pre-existing work ... ok then. I myself find most knives (once I determine them to be a keeper/user) perform MUCH better with work more easily performed on alternate method. I still believe the SharpMaker, or my Crock Sticks (RIP The late Louis Graves), precursor to the SharpMaker, are wonderful devices that perform best with maintenance as I have mentioned. But, realize I am that guy who uses a gum-eraser block to clean & extend the life of sanding belts, disks, etc. (because ..., well, experience is my guide).

I suggest you let first-hand experience be your guide.

Regards,

 

[Papilio]

Spey : Thank you very much for sharing your experience and this detailed answer. I always appreciate when first hand knowledge is shared.
From my little experience ceramics are harder to dress than - let's say - aluminum oxide stones.

 

[Spey]

From my little experience ceramics are harder to dress than - let's say - aluminum oxide stones.

I would 100% agree.

Also, would say/add there is varience (related to hardness) between ceramic compositions as there is varience between AL203 and SiC stones. Example: the Congress MoldMaster SiC stones are on the hard side (compared to many other SiC stones) so they tend to releases less abrasive during sharpening and respond well to dressing as the surface tends to glaze over vs release abrasive, at which point their relative effect on hardened steel becomes more burnishing (where dressing brings back their cutting vs burnishing effect). Same general experience I have had with ceramics (hardness varies between various stones based on specific composition).

Additionally ..., even within the Congress MoldMaster SiC stones (of exact same size, thickness, and composition) differing grit stones release grit at differing rates and certain ones tend to glaze.

User pressure on the stone, in use, obviously also has varied effect on a stones performance, along with the stone being used dry or wet and if wet what is used to wet the stone. I personally generally use water + very small amount of soap added to decrease the surface tension of the water (the water beads less).

So, what I am saying is I believe it conditional on specific stone (in my experience) and specific application. So, any consideration there is one answer to fit all is misguided in my mind. Sucks for those who simply want a single answer ..., like "what's the best _____" (from my youth, those were the Sears and Roebuck buyers - ignorance is bliss and that's okay by me ;-)

 

[Papilio]

I have underestimated how different stones are. Even stones made from the same material. So yes, I wanted a "one fits all" answer, too. But had to learn the hard way that there is not an easy one. At least I am learning. Hopefully.
What works for s.o. does not mean it works for me. Or you. You can only try and make your own experience. I have bought a lot of junk. And most likely will do this in future, too. My learning curve is not that steep.

Water + liquid soap or dish detergent as a lubricant works much better than just water or even dry. I agree 100%.

Maybe I am doing wrong with ceramics. Maybe I would better buy Shaptons. Or Venev. Or whatever. But maybe I did right. Time will show.
Thanks again.

 

[Spey]

Water + liquid soap or dish detergent as a lubricant works much better than just water or even dry. I agree 100%.

I believe you may have misread or misunderstood my comment.
"Lubricant", as you mentioned is what all the internet forums and Youtube videos typically talk about :-/
The "soap" mixed into water in my mind has a different function of interest to me (as mentioned previously ^^ Post#32 + a science link below explaining the principles).
Link : Water Surface Tension Breaker

RE: buying what it seems is junk (perhaps based on what others say ..., or even personal experiences), consider repurpose options. Example: a stone you do not like for sharpening, may perform better on a different steel (different composition, hardness, etc.), or perhaps could be used for dressing other stones ;-)

 

[Papilio]

I got it wrong. Thanks for making that clear.
You are right: Sometimes a bad buy is not a bad one in retrospect. Sold some ceramic rods because I thought I can't use them. Nowadays I regret it (would be great for pruning shears).
But sometimes it is. Like a stone with lots of excellent ratings. Used to sharpen one knife and it looks like a halfpipeafter 5 minutes. But you never know.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.

 

[Spey]

I got it wrong. Thanks for making that clear.
You are right: Sometimes a bad buy is not a bad one in retrospect. Sold some ceramic rods because I thought I can't use them. Nowadays I regret it (would be great for pruning shears).
But sometimes it is. Like a stone with lots of excellent ratings. Used to sharpen one knife and it looks like a halfpipeafter 5 minutes. But you never know.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Those "Sometimes a bad buy is not a bad one in retrospect. Sold some ceramic rods ..." could have been the Bees Knees on a serrated blade, destressing extreme sharpness of the inner lip of a Taiwan Spyderco Hole, removing burrs on ski & snowboard edges, etc., etc.

RE: "Used to sharpen one knife and it looks like a halfpipeafter 5 minutes."
Kinda sounds like you are referring to inducing a recurve just forward of the plunge grind ... which is a very common issue when the user does not understand what is going on blames the tool being used. (If by any chance this is the case, and you would like any assistance understanding/overcoming please feel free to drop me a message).

In my experiences I have learned it is almost always better to be a sharper tool than the tool you are using (don't let the tool dictate an outcome, true craftsmen do not blame their tools).

 

[Papilio]

Kinda sounds like you are referring to inducing a recurve just forward of the plunge grind ... which is a very common issue when the user does not understand what is going on blames the tool being used. (If by any chance this is the case, and you would like any assistance understanding/overcoming please feel free to drop me a message).

Thank you very much. This is a generous offer.

I wrote unclear. I meant the stone to be so soft that it dished immediatley. But you are right, I sharpened my first SAK on a very coarse stone (at that time I did not know it better). After a short time it had a recurve.