sharpness test

[Frank Hillary]

Vassili,

20g - means 20 gramm forse needed to cut cotton thread on scale, not degree of edge angle. It is explained in detail in steel edge retention testing thread. Sorry, for confusion.

Thanks, Vassili.

Thanks for that, tho I understood you correctly right from the start.

Cheers
Frank

 

[nozh2002]

Vassili,

Thanks for that, tho I understood you correctly right from the start.

Cheers
Frank

OK, then it is me who misunderstand you.

So you can whittle hair with 20g and with Opinel at 30 degree stainless.
And you can not get better then 45g with any steel at 30 degree.

Does it mean that you can whittle hair making long shave like here even with your 45g measured sharp edge? Like this shave on the hair:

In my case I can do this with edge measured at 20-30g. 45g cut hair at gentle touch, but not split it and not whittle it...

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Frank Hillary]

Vassili,

OK, then it is me who misunderstand you.

So you can whittle hair with 20g and with Opinel at 30 degree stainless.
And you can not get better then 45g with any steel at 30 degree.

Does it mean that you can whittle hair making long shave like here even with your 45g measured sharp edge? Like this shave on the hair:

In my case I can do this with edge measured at 20-30g. 45g cut hair at gentle touch, but not split it and not whittle it...

Thanks, Vassili.

Diferent hair!

I think that the type of hair makes a lot of diference.

I just stropped my opinel slimline, 30 degre inculded angle and cuts thread at 26gm-35gm and splits hair.

Cheers
Frank

 

[Frank Hillary]

Hi,

Splitinh hair is fun but my favorite test is to take some photocopy paper and turn up its edge to form a "L" by 1/4"and then push cut into it. If can do then its sharp enough.

Cheers
Frank

 

[Greg]

Hi,

Splitinh hair is fun but my favorite test is to take some photocopy paper and turn up its edge to form a "L" by 1/4"and then push cut into it. If can do then its sharp enough.

Cheers
Frank

I use the same test except I use a page of a telephone book.
Greg

 

[Frank Hillary]

Greg,

I use the same test except I use a page of a telephone book.
Greg

Dindt wanna say this, but when I get serious I do it with tisue paper! No, just kidding

Actualy, our phone book paper is 0.0025" and photocopy is 0.004". Me razor will puch cut into it but not my other knifes. Tho they hey will if a draw a little .

Cheers
Frank

 

[nozh2002]

Can you post it on YuorTube?
Can someone also put cigarett paper test (the one which shows microserration advantage) too?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Frank Hillary]

Vassili

Can you post it on YuorTube?
Can someone also put cigarett paper test (the one which shows microserration advantage) too?

Thanks, Vassili.

I said that I was joking about the tisue paper.

I tried cigarett paper just now. One brand is 0.0016" and the other 0.0011" thick.

My freshly stroped razor will not push cut into either if bent into "L"shape at 6mm. But will cut easily both if paper edge is stretched between fingers. Also will cut it easily at 2" from where I hold. My Opinel will cut at about 1/2" from were I hold.

Cheers
Frank

 

[knarfeng]

I dunno. I just use the fingernail test. I rest the edge on my thumbnail at about a 30° angle. If the knife bites into the nail won't slide across it, I consider it sharp enough for the day's work.

 

[Frank Hillary]

knarfeng

I dunno. I just use the fingernail test. I rest the edge on my thumbnail at about a 30° angle. If the knife bites into the nail won't slide across it, I consider it sharp enough for the day's work.

That's OK. What we are talking about is rely no more than showing off.

Cheers
Frank

 

[nozh2002]

I found that extreme sharpness are pretty useful. Many good steel can keep it for quite a while and in result you have your knife sharper for longer.

But I routinely cutting off splitter from fingers. It turns out to be pretty useful and convenient. I just cut skin right on top of splinter and because edge is very sharp it is possible to do without pushing splinter deeper into flesh. In result splinter almost fall out and not drop of blood happens and no pain.

If blade is just "sharp enough for work" - you should stay away from doing this kind of things - most likely you end up with splinter being deeper inside and with bad cut from you knife.

So also some steel have good edge retention on higher sharpness then other. For example 420 is better then ATS-34 and INFI at high sharpness, if you are not able to sharpen it to this level it performs pretty bad.

So extreme sharpness is not show off IMHO. But because not too many do not want to make it (because there is no any secret or special skills needed to use Green Rouge on your edge) in general nobody really experience this sharpness by themselfs.

So if you talking about - I do not need this, this is show off, my edge is good enough for work - first try to sharpen it to that level, see how is it and then you may say is it better then "working" sharpness or not.

Some people are happy with cheap chinese serrated knife until they tried real good one.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Broos]

I dunno. I just use the fingernail test. I rest the edge on my thumbnail at about a 30° angle. If the knife bites into the nail won't slide across it, I consider it sharp enough for the day's work.

I agree that's sharp enough for most, but to tell between sharp and really sharp the fingertips work better (Murray Carter's 3-finger test).

Can you post it on YuorTube?
Can someone also put cigarett paper test (the one which shows microserration advantage) too?

I guess no takers on this. I always thought cutting a roll of paper or cigarette paper is more of a very sharp polished edge type cutting feat. I do not recall having very good luck doing this with a 600-1000 grit edge that I think of as a microserrated edge. Maybe your micro-serration is my micro-micro-serration.

 

[Frank Hillary]

Hi,

One mans take on things:

http://bladetest.infillplane.com/html/testing_sharpness.html

Cheers
Frank

 

[Starkman1]

Fellas,
This may be a little off topic, but I've been following this thread closely and I'm impressed that some of you can get your knives hair splitting sharp. I would like to be able to learn this skill. I have purchased a Spyderco Sharpmaker, a quality Arkansas stone (medium), ceramic rods, leather strop, and Simichrome polish that a use on the strop. I can barely get my knives hair shaving sharp. My question is, what would be the minimum set-up, and sequence of steps I need to be able to get my knives hair splitting sharp? I collect ABS forged knives that are heat treated high carbon steels such as 5160 and 1084. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[Frank Hillary]

Starkman1

Seen these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WY8rhecws8&feature=related

Regards
Frank

 

[nozh2002]

Fellas,
This may be a little off topic, but I've been following this thread closely and I'm impressed that some of you can get your knives hair splitting sharp. I would like to be able to learn this skill. I have purchased a Spyderco Sharpmaker, a quality Arkansas stone (medium), ceramic rods, leather strop, and Simichrome polish that a use on the strop. I can barely get my knives hair shaving sharp. My question is, what would be the minimum set-up, and sequence of steps I need to be able to get my knives hair splitting sharp? I collect ABS forges blades that are heat treated high carbon steels such as 5160 and 1084. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob

I do not know about others - I was able to whittle hair myself using DMT diamond stones and Green Rouge on thin leather stretched over wooden base (hardwood). I post my set up on the YourTube - tilted base, moves, burr, leather etc and result. Here it is (there are some comments there also):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9tII6Tp7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WY8rhecws8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI_iqAyb3xA

Here is my Diamond stones:

Here is leather stretched over wood:

It should be easy with ABS hi-carbon steels. Trick here is to not to round edge with soft leather, this is why I use relatively thin and did not glue it to the base. Also I try to keep blade flat on the leather almost not touching edge, because if you push it in - you'll round it. Final steps must be very gentle, switching sides.

I see other reports that you can do same faster with paper wheels loaded with White rouge, but did not try myself. I use $7.50 Green Rouge - chromium oxide, and it works pretty well.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Starkman1]

Frank,
The Youtube videos make it look so easy.

Vassili,
The reference to the comments to the right of the videos was most helpful. I like to idea of using the angled block. I guess I probably need to invest in a few more stones and a block. Have you used this same setup on convex edged blades?
Thanks,
Bob

 

[nozh2002]

I do not know how to make hair whittling convex edge. I think you may easy skip 120 mesh Extra Extra Coarse stone and 8000 mesh Extra Extra Fine stone. 120 mesh - just steel eating beast useful for reprofiling geting rid of serration of S-curves edges etc. But if you have already good edge no need in this one. And I do not see really too much difference between Extra Fine and Extra Extra Fine, so Coarse and Extra Fine should be enough. I have mine because I was experimenting.

I do not know may be you do not even need diamond stones - you already have some stones. Try Green Rouge - $7.50 for brick which will last if you only do sharpening in 100 years, not too much.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Frank Hillary]

Vassili,

have you tried making an adjustable suport for your diamond hones to give you a variety of angles?

Do you level your knifes uper surface or do you allow for the primary grind?

Thanks for all the good work and shared info

Regards
Frank

 

[nozh2002]

Vassili,

have you tried making an adjustable suport for your diamond hones to give you a variety of angles?

No, I did not, I am happy so far with 15 degrees stand (30 degrees edge). But I rater make few more stands then have it adjustable. Solid wood is solid wood - no surprises. It is probably most not complicated solution at all.

From other hand I think stand gave me base and better access then if I put stone flat on the table, it is lifted from the table surface. I think now I will put stand under stone even horizontally anyway just to have more room for my arm to hold blade. Point is that what I am doing more or less free hand sharpening - it just easy to start for beginner (and I was a beginner bit more then a year ago). It is like Sharpmaker but you move blade horizontally.

Do you level your knifes uper surface or do you allow for the primary grind?

I am sorry, I do not understand - remember, I am Russian, so, please, speak slow and use simple words .

Thanks, Vassili.