Sheffield History and my first Taylor's Eye Witness - and now, second

Chui

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Have never been impressed by any of them due to quality, and their own idea of fit n finish, even with due regard to their price.

Picked up a nice one recently though - a more modern one. Am still learning about these types and will find out more, but here's some pics...


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Very nice indeed :thumbup: Aren't they made for TEW by Russell White?
 
I just checked out most of the products they make - I didn't find any distributors on my side of the pond, but I'm sure international shipping wouldn't be too severely awful.

There are some really neat ones out there, too. I like the looks of this pruner - very clean cut.

slim-pruner-pocket-knife-hardwood-handle-eye-witness-knives-sheffield-468-1379-p%5Bekm%5D300x300%5Bekm%5D.jpg
 
Looks like a beauty. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Harry has posted pictures of a couple of his TEWs with horn handles that haunt me pretty regularly. I've looked into them, I just haven't yet been able to justify the cost to buy them and have them shipped over here. I guess this is how our European friends feel about all the American knives we post. ;)

I keep telling myself that one day I'm going to get one, though.
 
Very nice indeed :thumbup: Aren't they made for TEW by Russell White?

.......spot-on, Jack - nail on the head.

As you possibly know, poor Russell has not been too well at all, not sure if he'll take to the workbench again.

This is a lovely example his work, very nice indeed
 
.......spot-on, Jack - nail on the head.

As you possibly know, poor Russell has not been too well at all, not sure if he'll take to the workbench again.

I don't know Russell personally, but am very sorry to hear that :(
 
I just checked out most of the products they make - I didn't find any distributors on my side of the pond, but I'm sure international shipping wouldn't be too severely awful.

There are some really neat ones out there, too. I like the looks of this pruner - very clean cut.

slim-pruner-pocket-knife-hardwood-handle-eye-witness-knives-sheffield-468-1379-p%5Bekm%5D300x300%5Bekm%5D.jpg

- indeed, they do look good, but I've seen quite a few of these and had some land in my lap from a 'bunch of knives' bought at auction...........couldn't get rid of them fast enough, fit n finish not my cup o' tea at all. The Chinese copies beat them all, hands down :(

Sheffield may have been the makers who brought production of traditional folders to the 'States all those year ago - but you've left UK way behind!
 
Certainly a decent looking one that clearly has very good finish. English knives generally have a luck of the draw in F&F I regret to have to say.

Could you give us some dimensions and steel/handle specs please? Perhaps you could PM me with distributor details/price/handle choice please?

Thanks, Will
 
chui-888,
When you say the quality of Eye Witness - from what era are you talking ? - as I found their early knives to be extremely good knives!
 
chui-888,
When you say the quality of Eye Witness - from what era are you talking ? - as I found their early knives to be extremely good knives!

- this is interesting, really wish to learn more too.

I think I need to find a collector here in UK who is willing to let me see some of the earlier TEW, because all of the recent ones I have seen, I would not give time of day for, despite their price point.

Given the history and heritage of Sheffield knives, I'd've thought that their knives would've got better and better - however, it seems the opposite from what I am learning.

Last year I commissioned a fella in Sheffield who works/worked for TEW to make me a pair of traditional stag folders. They were a pile of poo, didn't match at all, sent them back. It was embarrassing to receive such items within UK from a home grown maker. There were mistakes and bad workmanship that were inexcusable.

The one in this thread was made by someone I know who used to work for TEW, and it was sold to the original owner as a known good'un, to say the least.
 
Certainly a decent looking one that clearly has very good finish. English knives generally have a luck of the draw in F&F I regret to have to say.

Could you give us some dimensions and steel/handle specs please? Perhaps you could PM me with distributor details/price/handle choice please?

Thanks, Will

- sure, will be in touch soon
 
This is great looking knife Chui 888. Russell White came in mind as i saw the photo. Sorry to hear about his health.
Here is a photo of Mr. White knife excellent F&F

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Mike
 
- cheers, Mike........that's a real nice one from Russell.

Have another of his too, bought about 5 years ago...


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Bw
- this is interesting, really wish to learn more too.

I think I need to find a collector here in UK who is willing to let me see some of the earlier TEW, because all of the recent ones I have seen, I would not give time of day for, despite their price point.

Given the history and heritage of Sheffield knives, I'd've thought that their knives would've got better and better - however, it seems the opposite from what I am learning.

Last year I commissioned a fella in Sheffield who works/worked for TEW to make me a pair of traditional stag folders. They were a pile of poo, didn't match at all, sent them back. It was embarrassing to receive such items within UK from a home grown maker. There were mistakes and bad workmanship that were inexcusable.

The one in this thread was made by someone I know who used to work for TEW, and it was sold to the original owner as a known good'un, to say the least.

Hi Chui888
I am just wondering if you are talking about the later Eye Witness - when you get an earlier - let's say 1920's - 40's era EW it's always a very nice knife- there have been lots of reports of the later model Sheffield manufacturing to be not very good- but I wouldn't confuse this with the original Eye Witness knives by any account.
Our friend Jack would certainly know more on this.
 
Chui, thanks for getting in touch. The knives that you and Mike show are top of the range, anybody would be proud to have those in their collection. Not the case with most Sheffield knives of recent age...

Regards, Will
 
Looks like a beauty. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Harry has posted pictures of a couple of his TEWs with horn handles that haunt me pretty regularly. I've looked into them, I just haven't yet been able to justify the cost to buy them and have them shipped over here. I guess this is how our European friends feel about all the American knives we post. ;)

I keep telling myself that one day I'm going to get one, though.

They are pretty hard to justify cost wise !!!! I just decided I needed them to put into my meager collection of Barlows. IMO the fit and finish is equal to any of my Northfields. The fact that they are Ox Horn and Rams Horn had something to do with me buying them also. The fact that they are made in Sheffield was also a good reason to get them. I am unable to post pictures of them today , but will post some when I am able to.
Chuli : Your knife is also very appealing to me too. It looks like Buffalo Horn , but what is it ?????? Nice to see another TEW posted.

Harry
 
I never pass up on an old TEW knife :thumbup:

Today, I'm not sure they even make knives. Their high-end knives are made by Russell White, who previously worked at the TEW factory. Their budget knives....who knows where they're made :rolleyes: :(

It's important to understand that any Sheffield cutler working today only ever trained when the industry was in real decline. Even Stan Shaw (89), who in my opinion, still produces great knives, and who was lucky enough to serve his apprenticeship at Ibberson's, one of the last great Sheffield cutlery firms, only commenced work after WW2.

Many things did for the Sheffield cutlery industry, and I think that's a subject for a different thread, but the skills of many of the old Sheffield cutlers died on the fields of Flanders, and on a great many other battlefields throughout the world during WW1 and WW2. Sheffield cutlers were underpaid and worked like dogs, the whole cutlery industry was mismanaged by greedy incompetents, they produced products for which there was a declining demand, and post-WW2 they faced unprecedented foreign competition from countries which could produce knives extremely cheaply due to low labour costs. Cutlers received very little respect for their work, even in Sheffield, were poor, and did a filthy and very unhealthy job. There was the constant threat of redundancy and being out of work, as factory after factory closed. So of course, most young lads leaving school, if there was any other option available to them, sought a different career path, and their parents, for the most part, steered them clear of factories and grinding shops. Why on earth anyone would think the skills of Sheffield cutlers would get better and better is beyond me! Even today, when the few remaining Sheffield cutlers can get more money for their knives, they don't even make minimum wage - not even Stan Shaw. One of his predecessors, a younger man, who had a workshop at the Kelham Island Industrial Museum went back to being a postman (delivering mail), because at least with that job he got a wage.
 
- cheers, Jack :thumbup: :) This puts an understandable perspective on the Sheffield cutlers.

What baffles me though, is the apparent 'that'll do' mentality with recent and present makers. Like I said before, commissioned a pair of pocket knives last year and the flaws in one and not the other, and, vice versa, were quite shocking. There appears to be an apathy in our cutler industry, despite the wonderful and various sole custom makers we have.

We're lucky to have production makers in the 'States to produce traditional patterns as they do!
 
Stan Shaw is an exceptional Sheffield cutler, and I use that word quite deliberately. I don't think there is anyone else working in the town who can hold a candle to him. He was clearly trained well, and has a life-long interest and fascination with pocket knives, and how they are made. He has also known, for the past couple of decades at least, that he can get a decent price for his work, and make the patterns he chooses to make, working at his own pace, without some gaffer at his elbow hurrying him along, or telling him to cut corners.

Cutlers being badly paid is nothing new, nor are filthy working conditions. These were certainly much worse in the distant past, as even the most cursory exploration of cutlery history will show. Sheffield once had thousands of cutlers, with nearly every person in the town involved in the cutlery trades, and they had a direct heritage going back hundreds of years. Work conditions may have been bad, but so were living conditions in general, that was the 'lot' of working people, and they expected nothing more (many jobs were even worse paid). Cutlers served apprenticeships of up to 10 years, sometimes even more, and even before they officially commenced their apprenticeships (at 14), they would probably have been helping their fathers at the hearth for years. Cutlery was everything in Sheffield, and a good craftsman won respect, he also had plenty of work. A bad worker would not only have had little respect, he would have been beaten throughout his apprenticeship, and starved. Certainly, not all cutlers were great cutlers, but considering the wages they earned, standards were remarkably high.

The cutlers who are alive today grew up in entirely different times, where if a young man wanted to earn a good living, he did ANYTHING else, even bin-men (refuse collectors) were better paid. It was a time when people aspired to better things, when they didn't want to spend their days bent over a wheel in a dirty, damp cutlery works, which had probably changed little since the 19th, or even 18th century. If he was a bright, intelligent lad, with good exam results, he would have almost certainly chosen another career. If he served an apprenticeship at all, it would have been for a shorter period, and changes in working practices meant he might spend his first year or two sweeping up, and only ever learn certain aspects of the trade. Instead of trying to compete on QUALITY, almost all the Sheffield manufacturers chose to compete with their foreign rivals in terms of PRICE (and the buying public, largely, valued cheapness above quality). They was a drive to cut corners, to buy cheaper steel, to use cheaper materials, shell-handles replaced horn or bone. Cutlers and cutlery firms constantly undercut each other, and cutlers were paid less and less for their work, which was in less and less demand.

Bearing these factors in mind, it is hardly surprising that quality suffered. Most Sheffield cutlers of the later twentieth century probably never produced a great knife, just thousands of cheap, working knives. Things like 'square and clean' joints, which Sheffield cutlers had once prided themselves on, went out of the window decades ago.

Recently, one of the few existing cutlery firms (and they are not an old one), Arthur Wright & Sons, have taken on a couple of apprentices. If the employment situation here were better, I doubt they'd be able to find any, and their lowly wages will be subsidised or paid in full by the government, who are trying to encourage apprenticeships (or at least to reduce the unemployment figures). I have had a few decent knives from Arthur Wright, but I've also seen a lot of knives with gaps and numerous other flaws (I've also seen a good few GEC knives like that too). Let's put things into context though, the largest part of their customer base is not knife collectors, but ordinary blokes, gardeners and farmers, who just want a cheap knife they can keep sharp. You can buy an Arthur Wright Lambsfoot from as little as £13 - under $19 - here, about 10% of what a GEC knife sells for in the UK. That's RETAIL. So what did the cutlery firm get paid for that, and how much did the cutlery worker earn, no wonder fit and finish aren't what they could be? I'd be very happy if firms like Arthur Wright put their prices up, and increased the quality of their knives, and their quality control, but if they listened to that advice, they may well go out of business.

The 'that'll do' mentality, which isn't confined to the cutlery trades (and is shared by consumers as well as producers), has always appalled me. But I think that's how workers have been trained here (and elsewhere) for decades. Certainly for a working cutler, excellence rarely pays, it just leads to poverty and/or the sack (unemployment). And when those same workers get offered a better price for their labours, they might not even have the skills to turn out a better product, they might not even know what a better product looks like. I once told a couple of Sheffield cutlers that I would treble their usual rates if they would make knives to my standard, and the first thing they did was machine-ground the points of the 'handmade' knives, completely ruining them in the process.

Just as the cutlers of old were a product of their times, and of a harsh and cruel system, which killed them early, but which gave us some beautiful Mother-of Pearl fruit knives for example, so the Sheffield cutlers working today are a product of their times also, times where only a few respect and will pay for real quality, and where the majority just want something cheap and serviceable.
 
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