Shenanigans

Just to be clear emoney, since it is often hard in writing and in posts, I was not implying you were a cheat either. Do I think it is better if everyone copy and pasted the description? Perhaps. But that is my opinion and Andy has the law of the land.

Simply, it just kinda stinks through no one person's fault that this stuff happens from time to time and the last thing I think everyone around here wants to see is more emails like Fishnfool's or folks having bitter tastes in their mouth about FBF's. It is awesome that Andy and crew work to make sure everything stays fair, I just think we could all do our part as well, but yes, sometimes there are situations, like feeding your kid that command attention. No worries, wasn't trying to call you out, just make a broader point.
 
There is no reason for anyone to get mad. This is something we all enjoy and do not need to cause problems that may jeopardize this on Fridays. You win some and you lose some. Trust me, I have lost more than I have won, but still enjoy every Fiddleback Friday!

Martin
 
I'm not mad about the knife, could care less. I was sent a very polite PM by bamboo this morning explaining the situation. I gladly complied, explained what happened, and told them to keep me posted. Then I come to the forum to see that it has been turned into a big issue with people, including Andy, implying that some sort of sinister scheme is going on and inferring I am a cheat. It's poor relations, im a grown man, I don't need the drama. I just wanted to buy a knife. I didn't make FBF the way it is today, as competitive as it is. I just think the whole thing was handled poorly.
 
What is even more unfortunate is that this has affected 2 other members. I had a deal to sell the HB to a member to buy a Runt from another. Now all 3 parties are out of luck, and ive had to go back on my word with them. Something I don't take lightly.
 
I think Andy was simply making us aware of the edit stamp thing not saying you cheated.
 
I don't think anyone is cheating around here as we all are honest people that tend to make a mistake every now and then.
 
Ok, so I've had all day to let this consume me and I just have a couple of things to say.
I never intended to mislead or deceive anyone. Since I am relegated to sharking from a phone or a tablet on a good way, I look at fotki and decide which knife I want. If I can clearly identify the model ( sometimes I can't because I'm new) I type "I'll take the -----" and I copy it to be pasted later. I have read that they prefer the whole description and would love to comply and have tried to comply but copying on a phone is very very hard and time consuming, so I gave up on it. Where I went wrong yesterday was I only recognized the tuxedo HB as a HB, the bolstered one looked bigger to me or something so I only typed "I'll take the Hiking buddy, please". After posting, I scrolled up to see how much this was going to cost me and saw that there were 2 HB listed, so I went back and clarified that I wanted 02. On a normal day, I would have typed "I'll take the tuxedo HB" and we wouldn't be having this discussion. But on this day my wife was at work and I was watching our 4 month old, whom gets fussy and hungry late in the afternoon so while trying to stalk fotki I was a little distracted. When FBF actually happened, I had a bottle in her mouth held under my chin while trying to refresh and navigate the thread. It was a challenge. It didn't show that I edited and I would have mentioned it if I thought I was being dishonest but I knew in my heart the tuxedo was what I intended to get, I did my due diligence and was the first of all people to post, so I thought I was good.
This morning I woke up with a PM from Ken, explaining the situation and that they were going to offer the knife to the next person. I was good with that. But when I saw this thread, started by Andy, and how it painted me as a cheat, it hurt my feelings and upset me. Andy doesn't really take time to start many threads, it doesn't seem. He thought this was a big deal, and i guess it is since so many are upset about it, and I agree that some rules may need to be tweeked a little to even the playing field, but the fact that he ended his post suggesting cheating really bothered me. It made me feel like he doesn't see or understand the sacrifices and amount of time we put into FBF. He did not make me feel like an appreciated customer. Then some of the others chimed in, to be honest what they think doesn't really matter to me. It just hurt that Andy thought I was a cheat, kind of like when your dad is disappointed in you. So, I got angry and defensive. Reading Andy's post over a dozen times, he never actually called me a cheat, he inferred that it may be going on, but I can assure him that was not my intention. It doesn't read as bad to me now as it did when I woke up this afternoon (I work nights), but I'm still a little sour about it and I think it does imply that what I did was in an effort to be dishonest, but I wanted to make sure that he knows I didn't intend to cheat and that I'm sorry I flew off the handle.
A wise man taught me to never complain about something without offering a suggestion to fix it so here goes:
Make copying descriptions mandatory
Maybe include descriptions on FOTKI so those that stalk and have a tablet can copy over there. (I've never used fotki and don't know if this is even possible
I have experienced times where the order of the pictures and descriptions don't match up, this costs even more time to sort out so if care could be taken to avoid that
Maybe give a heads up early in the day what time FBF will actually be so that people can make arrangements and be able to dedicate their undivided attention to it.
Maybe eliminate the current format all together and do it as a lottery where we register with you after you determined how many knives you will make that week, u assign us a random number, and we pick knives based on that.
These are all just suggestions I thought I would offer, I'm not familiar with the logistics of your operation.
So to end, I'm sorry for those who witnessed my rant and for those whom I was hostile towards. I can assure you it won't happen again.

E
 
Follow up to yesterdays hasty post by myself!

After taking a bit of time to step back, calm down and re-evaluate, I want everyone to know I will not be selling my collection of Fiddlebacks and I will continue to at least monitor FB Fridays. I am not leaving.

Thanks to the folks that left the positive comments to me after my rant, including Andy! Thanks also to the ones that left other comments. I respect your opinions....even if I don't agree with all of them! All I can say is....you don't know the whole story that led up to my temporary insanity but that's OK. The one that counts does! I believe that I have corresponded with all parties via PM to thank or apologize. If I forgot someone it's because I had another senior moment!

Sorry if I upset anyone's fun or comfort level yesterday. Clearly, I wasn't thinking and allowed my frustrations to take over....I'll try not to let that happen again!

Happy Easter everyone!
Gordy
 
Fiddleback said:
I'm calling shenanigans. Ken and Adam noticed an edit on the Fiddleback Friday thread yesterday. The edit mark was not there, so we accepted it. And now we noticed that somehow some of the posts are not getting marked with an edit stamp. I am going to query the back end of the forum and find out how this is happening and whether or not we can regulate this. If we cannot, then I think this is a big exercise in cheatery and I'm going to change that right away.
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I used to think there is a five minute time limit, or you had to leave the page, and come back in order for the edit stamp to come up, but apparently there is just the time limit.

I've edited this post three times, and left the page three times in five minutes.
 
Fiddleback said:
I'm calling shenanigans. Ken and Adam noticed an edit on the Fiddleback Friday thread yesterday. The edit mark was not there, so we accepted it. And now we noticed that somehow some of the posts are not getting marked with an edit stamp. I am going to query the back end of the forum and find out how this is happening and whether or not we can regulate this. If we cannot, then I think this is a big exercise in cheatery and I'm going to change that right away.
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If it is a forum function, then I really don't see how you are going to be able to regulate it any easier than getting people to actually copy/paste the entire description of the knife in their posts. I don't know which post was edited, I didn't see it. I was working, so I don't know who made the edit or why. But it seems to me it will sort itself out either way. Either it is new people unaware of the SOP and how important not editing posts is, and they will be brought up to speed by someone, If it was an intentional cheat, I would think it wouldn't happen again from the same person after this.
 
emoney2277 said:
I'm not mad about the knife, could care less. I was sent a very polite PM by bamboo this morning explaining the situation. I gladly complied, explained what happened, and told them to keep me posted. Then I come to the forum to see that it has been turned into a big issue with people, including Andy, implying that some sort of sinister scheme is going on and inferring I am a cheat. It's poor relations, im a grown man, I don't need the drama. I just wanted to buy a knife. I didn't make FBF the way it is today, as competitive as it is. I just think the whole thing was handled poorly.
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I owe you an apology e-money. I do not believe you are a cheater or intended to 'cheat' in this incident at all. It was my intention from the start to have a discussion about this and find out what the tech-story with the edit was. I did not intend to out you at all. BUT, I posted the thread before knowing the whole story, and I used language that was hurtful, and for that, I apologize.

Fiddleback Friday is a rucus, and I cannot tame it, no rule will work. Even the no editing rule has not been followed and I have no idea how to police even that at this point. AND, my efforts to referee will always result in folks walking away upset. In this incident, one guy saw the edit, thought it sucked and walked away, in his own words. Then during my effort to referee, admitedly done hastily and clumsily (sorry again Emoney), I loose a customer that way.
 
Some people need tougher skin. Shit happens, nobody got hurt, Andy is trying to make it work for everyone and there will always be people dissapointed with how Friday works out..
 
As others have stated, I know that BF would put an edit time stamp on edits made within the five minutes of the post. However, there are many stating the five minute rule has been around for some time. It appears that this is not being applied consistently on BF.

When your sales are using a medium that you do not have 100% control over, then these things are bound to happen. All you can do is the very best job that you can, and know that it is not perfect. If BF can toggle a switch turning on all edit time stamps for your subforum, then this might be a solution. But if not, then we all have to accept that we are in an imperfect world.
 
Apology accepted, sir. I will remain a loyal customer. Thank you for making this right, you're a stand up guy. It's no wonder you are loved by so many in this community.
FBF is a ruckus, I knew that getting into it, and honestly that's what I love about it. You're marketing and sales strategy is absolutely fascinating and truly unique. I wish I had the time and know- how to help you make the little tweeks it needs, but when using someone else's platform you're kind of limited in what you can do.
Thanks again for the apology, I too am sorry for acting so hastily and not giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not trying to insult me. I will know for next time, and can now honestly defend your character, as well, should another person have questions of their own.

Thank The Lord this got resolved! Now I can keep my FB sickness intact and thriving! I think my wife was actually happy for a minute thinking I was going to be done with them. Jokes on her, lol.
 
NoFair said:
Some people need tougher skin.
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Understatement of the year.

After getting caught up over the weekend, and thinking about this for a while......................I still find this whole conversation hard to believe.

My God, these are knives we are talking about, right? Or did I miss Andy's post where he said he won't be making any more, or that Friday's will never come again?

I think a real big dose of perspective is in order.
 
Hate to see people get upset over this and sell off collections. I don't think there was any bad intentions here. However, the rules are clearly stated at the top of the forum:

Fiddleback said:
Law of the Sharks:

3. Avoid editing your I'll take it posts. If you do this, then I have to go by the timestamp of the edit, which is often quite far down the list of posts. Common reasons folks edit posts are to switch the knife they chose because it was already taken, or because they want to tell me they've sent payment. If your knife was taken, post a new post. This gives you a new post # and timestamp. If another poster posted the I'll take it later during the same minute, you get a post # to differentiate the winner by, but if you edit, I have to allow everyone in that same minute ahead of you!!! There is no need to post that you've paid. I ship from paypal, so if you've paid, then the knife ships with the rest next Tuesday regardless of whether you post that you paid or not.
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Unfortunately the way posts and edits are set up here, this is nearly impossible to enforce other than sharks noticing something suspect against this ruling. Someone said it perfectly, this is an imperfect world. Though I see no "shenanigans" from the event in question here, following the posted rules the knife should go to the next buyer without question or hard feelings. I'd chalk this up as an honest mistake.

I do hope however that something could potentially be done with the editing issue. Now that it's out of the bag, though I believe us all to be men/women of integrity, there will be some bad sharks popping in from time to time.

I'm a new guy here. I have been following Andy's work vicariously online through photos for some time. Only recently did I actively join the FB community. While I do appreciate all of you who have supported Fiddleback Forge through the years, pushing its growth, I do think it unreasonable for people to complain about not having a Facebook page, Twitter page or be able to follow a link to Fotki, leaving you with an 'unfair' advantage on Fridays. I consider myself very fortunate to own 2 of Andy's knives. If I was not usually preoccupied to having a 'slow' moment of Fridays I'd probably have more by now. I'd be beside myself if I had some of the collections mentioned here and would have loved to have been active when Fridays were 'easy'. I say continue your long term support of Fiddleback Forge and "friend" or "follow" him in these other promoting ventures and be happy of the company's growth and success, even if it is more of a challenge to score one of Andy's knives in today's market.

Right or wrong, just a noob's opinion.
 
velosa said:
Understatement of the year.

After getting caught up over the weekend, and thinking about this for a while......................I still find this whole conversation hard to believe.

My God, these are knives we are talking about, right? Or did I miss Andy's post where he said he won't be making any more, or that Friday's will never come again?

I think a real big dose of perspective is in order.
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Well folks, as I have mentioned the knife never really mattered to me. It was the idea that a merchant whom I've literally spent $1800 on in the last 2 months ( which is a lot of money to me as I am a RN) would question my intentions or integrity publicly before giving me an opportunity to explain what happened. If any of you actually knew me, you would no that nothing is farther from the truth. I would never get upset over missing a knife on FBF, even is someone did intentionally cheat me out of it. Am I sensitive? Yes, but If you're not going to stand up for your own character, what are you ever going stand up for???
 
I agree Velosa that perspective is in order, but I also think this thread isn't really about one knife or one action. It is more about how some actions/situations during FBF's can lead to Andy losing current customer's or newer folks electing to go elsewhere because they think the system is flawed/unfair. Sure, "if you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen", perhaps is applicable, but I am not sure that's the business model FB is shooting for. Getting cut in line at the coffee shop may make you wait a minute and a half longer for your coffee...in perspective...but for the normal person, it usually drums up ill feelings in some form or another. Hard to run a business with dynamics that could create friction just hoping folks keep things in perspective.

I am glad your sticking around emoney, your posts are among the many that keep this place lively and a fun place to be.
 
I have a couple simple observations from a guy who is new to this forum, but not forums in general and I'm certainly not to new to tough decisions or sorting out conflict.

1) The rules state you should not edit your post. A post was edited. Call it cheating, call it a mistake, call it what ever you want, it was a willful violation of a stated rule and the post was correctly disqualified under the rules. If a post needs to be edited to be clarified, the rules indicate that the proper way to do that is with a new post. If the clarified post is too late...look forward to next Friday. Any excuse as to why that wasn't done is simply that, an excuse. I personally am not one who is impressed by excuses. emoney, no one is attacking your character, folks simply don't agree that your edit was harmless. You must understand that you edited a post and take some responsibility for that. Own it and move on, no drama required and I'm certain that it would have been forgotten by now.

2) As it relates to copying the entire description. Frankly, I'd prefer that be a hard and fast rule, just like editing; however, I have read Andy's post where he stated his reasons for not making it a hard and fast rule and respect his business decision. I wanted the Camp Knife this past Friday. I knew it was the only Camp Knife and I could have easily had "I'll take the Camp Knife" copied and ready to paste from my phone. I couldn't be by my computer as I had a meeting Friday afternoon so instead of ignoring Andy's request to copy the entire description, I sat this Friday out. I kept hitting F5 up until 3:30, but once my meeting started, I knew I would not have a chance at the Camp Knife as copying on a phone is not easy. No worries, there is another Friday every week. It is a bit frustrating that those who do right by Andy and respect his request are put at a disadvantage by those who choose to ignore the request because it's not a "rule." Frustrating enough to ruin my day? Not even close, more like something stuck in your teeth frustrating.

3) With or without the time stamps being placed on the posts, it would appear that the system still works. The community would appear to have an element of self policing that I frankly find very encouraging. "The edit heard round the forum" that we've been discussing definitely left a sour taste in my mouth in regards to FBF as I assumed that kind of stuff was considered "shark mentality." I'm very happy to see that my assumption was incorrect and that things appear to be more honest than I judged.

It is this self policing that I find encouraging and what leads me to believe that FBF is at the end of the day working just fine.

4) From reading threads and past posts, there seems to be some discussion about whether or not FBF needs to be changed or tweaked. Before Blind Horse Knives split up, they had a members only forum where they would offer up special knives periodically. They'd post the knife and the price, and then people would post in the thread saying that they were "in" for the drawing. They used an iphone app to randomly choose a number and that post number won the opportunity to buy the posted knife at the stated price. Perhaps if Andy posted a knife or two through out the week using a model similar to this, it might alleviate the pressure that some feel in regards to FBF. It would be an outlet where those who don't have time to shark on Friday can still pick up a new knife from Andy. Maybe give folks who don't enjoy swimming in shark infested waters a "kiddie pool" to swim in and pick up a knife...cater to all personality types kind of idea.

This isn't a suggestion or anything like that, I don't think anything needs to or should change. I simply sense a bit of internal struggle in Andy's comments and merely offer the idea if he is searching for something. Every company that has had success and has grown has experience unintended stresses and strains, it's just part of the normal growth curve. I'm watching my company go through it again...it's a good problem to have.

Remember, it's a forum about knives...this is fun folks.

PS, my fisrt Fiddleback will be delivered today!!! Thanks again to The Baron for the heads up about KSF last Thursday.
 
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